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Engineers teach a drone to herd birds away from airports autonomously

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Re: Engineers teach a drone to herd birds away from airports autonomously

#31

Post by pluto9 »

LeifCarrotson wrote: post #25
pluto9 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The drones would chase the birds away. Chasing requires fleeing. If the bird knows from experience that the drone won't hurt him, then why would he flee from it?

Because he's a bird?

It is not obvious to me that a bird will flee from anything that approaches it, regardless of past experience, simply "because he's a bird". See above about city pigeons. Or aggressive geese at the park. Or birds that get sucked into jet engines because they apparently don't consider a jumbo jet to be an obstacle worth avoiding, hence this conversation.

Re: Engineers teach a drone to herd birds away from airports autonomously

#32

Post by onemoresoop »

onemoresoop wrote: post #28
pluto9 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The drones would chase the birds away. Chasing requires fleeing. If the bird knows from experience that the drone won't hurt him, then why would he flee from it?

Chasing the birds in circles

Or maybe the drone could be equipped to zap birds with some small electrical charge. They'd learn the lesson quickly

Re: Engineers teach a drone to herd birds away from airports autonomously

#33

Post by oh_sigh »

mhneu wrote: post #20
inamberclad wrote: post #16

I don't think pilots would be entirely opposed to this kind of tech. While I don't think many pilots trust drone operators to be responsible in any way (I don't, since I don't think many of them know the airspace system or where their nearby airports are), they might be okay with unmanned aerial systems operated by the local airport authority, since they could likely geofence them in such a manner that they'd never c…

Problem is downside risk: drones get hacked, or someone figures out how to make the drones fly into planes, or herd birds TOWARD planes. As a society we've been pretty cavalier about algorithmic control. Which can work well for a lot of things. But probably shouldn't be trusted (without a TON of validation and regulation, as we've done over decades with airliners) with controlling stuff that can injure people or dama…

You can already do that with your own manually controlled drones(surprisingly, no one has done this yet). There is no need to hack the airports drones.

Re: Engineers teach a drone to herd birds away from airports autonomously

#34

Post by sandworm101 »

brailsafe wrote: post #26
sandworm101 wrote: post #4

>> The passengers on Flight 1549 were only saved because the pilots were so skilled. Of course the engineering and planning that went into the aircraft's construction had nothing to do with it, nor did the countless government regulations dictating safety equipment and training. These sorts of "miracles" happen rather regularly. A plane crashes near a runway totaling the aircraft, but everyone walks away. Piloting is…

With some regularity, I encounter people who work either around pilots or on planes and consistently attempt to disqualify pilots from praise, no matter how insignificant that is to the context of the conversation. As if I would need to comment on any of Elon Musk's success to mention that his success would not have been had without the countless engineers and layers of automative tech that he's building upon. These…

Well, if it is resentment then it is self-resentment, me being a pilot.

Re: Engineers teach a drone to herd birds away from airports autonomously

#35

Post by cornellwright »

mhneu wrote: post #20
inamberclad wrote: post #16

I don't think pilots would be entirely opposed to this kind of tech. While I don't think many pilots trust drone operators to be responsible in any way (I don't, since I don't think many of them know the airspace system or where their nearby airports are), they might be okay with unmanned aerial systems operated by the local airport authority, since they could likely geofence them in such a manner that they'd never c…

Problem is downside risk: drones get hacked, or someone figures out how to make the drones fly into planes, or herd birds TOWARD planes. As a society we've been pretty cavalier about algorithmic control. Which can work well for a lot of things. But probably shouldn't be trusted (without a TON of validation and regulation, as we've done over decades with airliners) with controlling stuff that can injure people or dama…

Given the number of times I've personally almost hit birds while flying small aircraft, I'll take the downside risk. Give the tower some sort of override to require the drone to land if it's doing more harm than good.

There's lots of easier ways to hack our fragile ATC system than herding birds at airplanes that I'd worry about first.

Re: Engineers teach a drone to herd birds away from airports autonomously

#36

Post by mschuster91 »

maltalex wrote: post #19
dsfyu404ed wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bird scaring drone can be programed to stay clear of planes. The birds can't

Birds are already programmed for that. It's called self preservation. Airplanes are huge chunks of metal that make a deafening roar. Grown men are rightly afraid of coming near one.

> Birds are already programmed for that. It's called self preservation.

Not exactly. Bird strikes are a huge problem especially in "congested" environments, aka humans sealing up more and more former forest/agricultural land with concrete... and thus forcing the birds to airports as they usually have spacious amounts of grass land with ample space for insects.

There's a reason why bird strikes are most prevalent in city airports, simply because the birds don't have anywhere else to go. Worst case IIRC was the plane that emergency-landed in an NYC river due to colliding with an entire flock of geese.

Re: Engineers teach a drone to herd birds away from airports autonomously

#37

Post by skybrian »

mhneu wrote: post #20
inamberclad wrote: post #16

I don't think pilots would be entirely opposed to this kind of tech. While I don't think many pilots trust drone operators to be responsible in any way (I don't, since I don't think many of them know the airspace system or where their nearby airports are), they might be okay with unmanned aerial systems operated by the local airport authority, since they could likely geofence them in such a manner that they'd never c…

Problem is downside risk: drones get hacked, or someone figures out how to make the drones fly into planes, or herd birds TOWARD planes. As a society we've been pretty cavalier about algorithmic control. Which can work well for a lot of things. But probably shouldn't be trusted (without a TON of validation and regulation, as we've done over decades with airliners) with controlling stuff that can injure people or dama…

If we're discussing movie-plot scenarios, it seems like it would be much easier for an attacker to buy their own drone. And maybe figure out how to put explosives on it, too.

Re: Engineers teach a drone to herd birds away from airports autonomously

#38

Post by darkerside »

brailsafe wrote: post #26
sandworm101 wrote: post #4

>> The passengers on Flight 1549 were only saved because the pilots were so skilled. Of course the engineering and planning that went into the aircraft's construction had nothing to do with it, nor did the countless government regulations dictating safety equipment and training. These sorts of "miracles" happen rather regularly. A plane crashes near a runway totaling the aircraft, but everyone walks away. Piloting is…

With some regularity, I encounter people who work either around pilots or on planes and consistently attempt to disqualify pilots from praise, no matter how insignificant that is to the context of the conversation. As if I would need to comment on any of Elon Musk's success to mention that his success would not have been had without the countless engineers and layers of automative tech that he's building upon. These…

Checklist Manifesto (by Atul Gawande) makes a strong case that the systems and processes in flight planning are an unsung "hero" in the consistent safety record of the complex affair that is flying. I don't think it's resentment so much as it is acknowledgement of normal human bias (to find and credit heroes), and an attempt to provide context that frames that bias in a proper and realistic way.

Sully was a hero! Is a hero! And he gets, and deserves, a lot of credit. But he was the first to say that he was just doing his job, and he means it literally. He and his copilot worked together (very effectively) to apply the proper checklists and procedures in order to effect a safe water landing and evacuation.

Re: Engineers teach a drone to herd birds away from airports autonomously

#39

Post by drewmol »

maltalex wrote: post #5

What’s worse - sucking in a bird into a jet engine or a bird-scaring drone?

Depends on the size, altitude and your affinity towards birds/drones. First wind turbines now robotic nuance drones, birds have had it to good for too long I guess.
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