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Where Vim Came From

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Re: Where Vim Came From

#71

Post by cup-of-tea »

j0e1 wrote: post #38

> While Emacs certainly still has a following, some people think that the Editor Wars are over and that Vim won.16 The 2018 Stack Overflow Developer Survey suggests that this is true; only 4.1% of respondents used Emacs. I'm an Emacs user for years now and love the editor. But I'm curious about this claim of its poor popularity. The article refers to a piece from http://www.linux-magazine.com/Online/Blogs/Off-the-Bea…

Very difficult to do with free software and completely irrelevant really. At some point in your life it's OK to accept that you're the weird one. We're the weird ones. Donald Knuth, Richard Stallman, Guido van Rossum, Rich Hickey et al are the weird ones. I don't know why emacs is such a barrier to everyone else or why vim is so attractive. But I don't understand most other humans about most things.

Re: Where Vim Came From

#72

Post by zimbatm »

nextlevelwizard wrote: post #56
j0e1 wrote: post #38

> While Emacs certainly still has a following, some people think that the Editor Wars are over and that Vim won.16 The 2018 Stack Overflow Developer Survey suggests that this is true; only 4.1% of respondents used Emacs. I'm an Emacs user for years now and love the editor. But I'm curious about this claim of its poor popularity. The article refers to a piece from http://www.linux-magazine.com/Online/Blogs/Off-the-Bea…

Completely anecdotally I've ever met two person who used Emacs and handful of people who use vim. At my current job I'm the only one who uses vim as my main tool, but collegue sitting next to me is the other Emacs user. Although some poeople have started to dabble in vim every now and then. I guess people just run into vim more often in the wild.

Completely anecdotally as well, all 3 emacs users that I know are the most brilliant developers that I know.

Re: Where Vim Came From

#73

Post by DougMerritt »

enf wrote: post #46
skissane wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Does anyone know if it was another clone or just coincidence? EDLIN was a clone of CP/M ED. Was CP/M ED influenced by Unix ed? I don't know, but I somewhat doubt it. Gary Kildall's primary background was in IBM mainframe and DEC minicomputer systems (in particular VM/CMS and TOPS-10), and so it seems to me more likely that CP/M ED was influenced by DEC or IBM line editors, than by Unix. That said, Unix and IBM main…

CP/M ED is more in the TECO tradition than anything else, through the DEC influence. It is oriented around characters rather than around lines as the ed family is.

And if you keep going back, TECO (like QED) can be traced back (via ports, rewrites, shared authors, etc) to the PDP 1 and Colossal Typewriter. All those histories are intertwingled back then.

Re: Where Vim Came From

#74

Post by cup-of-tea »

flukus wrote: post #68
cup-of-tea wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stupid poll. Due to the limited options, people who use neither editor seriously have voted vim simply because they know about it. Also it can't be denied that vim is the hipster editor, used by the same kind of people that use reddit. People that use emacs, like me, do not vote in polls on reddit.

> Also it can't be denied that vim is the hipster editor, used by the same kind of people that use reddit /r/vim subscribers: 54,406 /r/emacs subscribers: 22,701 If anything it seems like emacs users are over represented on reddit :)

Or maybe vim is massively over represented in those other polls. Lots of people claim to use it. Few customise and really live with it and thus are not likely to subscribe to a subreddit about it. I know "vim users" that actually use pycharm with vim keybindings if you actually watch them. If that's OK then everyone who uses default readline bindings is an emacs user.

Re: Where Vim Came From

#75

Post by cup-of-tea »

simula67 wrote: post #66
cup-of-tea wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You use it wrong. You're supposed to keep your local emacs running and use tramp to login to the remote server. That way you still have your emacs config with you and don't have to load it again. What vim users don't seem to understand is: I never restart emacs. Mine stays running for weeks, even months at a time. When I change my emacs config I just run the code. I don't restart emacs.

> You use it wrong Self-deprecating humor ? https://www.engadget.com/2010/06/24/apple-responds-over-ipho...

No. We're talking about highly specialised tools for professional engineers, not some dumb electronics made for children and old people. You're using the tool wrong. Emacs is not vi.

Re: Where Vim Came From

#76

Post by rounce »

I wouldn't be surprised if a large part of Vim's current popularity stems from EDITOR=vim by default on many distros, despite often having emacs and always including nano. Even over a decade ago when I was in my early teens this seemed pretty common.

Re: Where Vim Came From

#77

Post by void_starer »

snambi wrote: post #49
j0e1 wrote: post #38

> While Emacs certainly still has a following, some people think that the Editor Wars are over and that Vim won.16 The 2018 Stack Overflow Developer Survey suggests that this is true; only 4.1% of respondents used Emacs. I'm an Emacs user for years now and love the editor. But I'm curious about this claim of its poor popularity. The article refers to a piece from http://www.linux-magazine.com/Online/Blogs/Off-the-Bea…

https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/6ihxua/officially_se...

Who cares even if it's 100x more popular. At the end of the day C++ is more popular than lisp/scheme.

Re: Where Vim Came From

#78

Post by pyrale »

cup-of-tea wrote: post #64
snambi wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/6ihxua/officially_se...

Stupid poll. Due to the limited options, people who use neither editor seriously have voted vim simply because they know about it. Also it can't be denied that vim is the hipster editor, used by the same kind of people that use reddit. People that use emacs, like me, do not vote in polls on reddit.

Dude, your comments come across as categorizing and slightly judgemental.

It's fine to use vim, and it's fine to use emacs. No need to get upset over a piece of technology.

Re: Where Vim Came From

#79

Post by copperx »

cup-of-tea wrote: post #71
j0e1 wrote: post #38

> While Emacs certainly still has a following, some people think that the Editor Wars are over and that Vim won.16 The 2018 Stack Overflow Developer Survey suggests that this is true; only 4.1% of respondents used Emacs. I'm an Emacs user for years now and love the editor. But I'm curious about this claim of its poor popularity. The article refers to a piece from http://www.linux-magazine.com/Online/Blogs/Off-the-Bea…

Very difficult to do with free software and completely irrelevant really. At some point in your life it's OK to accept that you're the weird one. We're the weird ones. Donald Knuth, Richard Stallman, Guido van Rossum, Rich Hickey et al are the weird ones. I don't know why emacs is such a barrier to everyone else or why vim is so attractive. But I don't understand most other humans about most things.

Vim is attractive to many because it launches in a fraction of a second. This is especially important to sysadmins, who don't "live in a text editor." It's also quite popular to use vim without customization.

I understand that some people have simple needs. I don't. The editor wars are over for me and Emacs has won.

Re: Where Vim Came From

#80

Post by pimeys »

pletnes wrote: post #70
nextlevelwizard wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Completely anecdotally I've ever met two person who used Emacs and handful of people who use vim. At my current job I'm the only one who uses vim as my main tool, but collegue sitting next to me is the other Emacs user. Although some poeople have started to dabble in vim every now and then. I guess people just run into vim more often in the wild.

Relatedly, the emacs users I’ve met were 10+ years older than me (so far). Also, a huge number of other editors have vim keybindings as an option or plugin: intellij, eclipse, visual studio - the list goes on forever...

The funny thing is, emacs has the most compatible vi mode and they call it the evil-mode. Happy user for many years.
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