If Google bows to China’s censorship, it will put tech giant on a slippery slope
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Re: If Google bows to China’s censorship, it will put tech giant on a slippery slope
#2Sadly, with what we know of ISPs and tech companies running fiber straight to Fort Meade, even giving them a room in the data center [1], I don't see this as surprising. Google might have been thinking of this when they altered their motto. [2]
1: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A 2: https://gizmodo.com/google-removes-nearly-all-mentions-of-do...
Re: If Google bows to China’s censorship, it will put tech giant on a slippery slope
#3What's the slippery slope here? According to the article:
> if [Google] accedes to the Chinese government’s demands, it will make it easier for others to do so, and will also embolden other totalitarian states to ask for their own custom censorship services from Google and other tech giants.
I think this is all premised on the belief that American corporations somehow have the moral obligation (and right) to change the way things in a different country work.
China has its own functioning tech ecosystem, so entrant companies need to play by its rules if they want to make a profit there. Period.
Even if I appreciate Western morality, I don't see reasons for outrage or bemoaning slippery slopes.
Re: If Google bows to China’s censorship, it will put tech giant on a slippery slope
#4But all the other major, and most minor companies have already acquiesced. That's how one's allowed to do business in China, and China is a market one cannot ignore.
Re: If Google bows to China’s censorship, it will put tech giant on a slippery slope
#5What's the slippery slope here? According to the article: > if [Google] accedes to the Chinese government’s demands, it will make it easier for others to do so, and will also embolden other totalitarian states to ask for their own custom censorship services from Google and other tech giants. I think this is all premised on the belief that American corporations somehow have the moral obligation (and right) to change t…
> I think this is all premised on the belief that American corporations somehow have the moral obligation (and right) to change the way things in a different country work.
> China has its own functioning tech ecosystem, so entrant companies need to play by its rules if they want to make a profit there. Period.
Nazi Germany also had "its own functioning tech ecosystem". So did Stalin and Mao's even more murderous regimes.
Moral obligations don't stop at borders.
Re: If Google bows to China’s censorship, it will put tech giant on a slippery slope
#6If you do business you have to cooperate with the government and the law of that land. It is up to the people of that country to change their laws and government.
I would be much more concerned if google gets an exception. In the west bigcorp gets their lobbyist army (google is #1) to get past laws and the people's will. I hope China won't bow down to Google. America is operated by corporations, some countries are not.
Re: If Google bows to China’s censorship, it will put tech giant on a slippery slope
#7Apple readily hand over the keys to their datacenters, why can't Google bend as well?
Re: If Google bows to China’s censorship, it will put tech giant on a slippery slope
#8If you do business you have to cooperate with the government and the law of that land. It is up to the people of that country to change their laws and government. I would be much more concerned if google gets an exception. In the west bigcorp gets their lobbyist army (google is #1) to get past laws and the people's will. I hope China won't bow down to Google. America is operated by corporations, some countries are no…
China is an authoritarian state. China isn't going to bow down to Google. The honorable, and the correct, thing for Google to do is not operate in China, but of course they aren't going to do that.
Re: If Google bows to China’s censorship, it will put tech giant on a slippery slope
#9When will the lesson be learned?
When will the lesson be learned?
How many more dictators must be wooed, appeased - good God, given immense privileges - before we learn?
YOU CANNOT REASON WITH A TIGER WHEN YOUR HEAD IS IN ITS MOUTH.
Re: If Google bows to China’s censorship, it will put tech giant on a slippery slope
#10What's the slippery slope here? According to the article: > if [Google] accedes to the Chinese government’s demands, it will make it easier for others to do so, and will also embolden other totalitarian states to ask for their own custom censorship services from Google and other tech giants. I think this is all premised on the belief that American corporations somehow have the moral obligation (and right) to change t…
> I think this is all premised on the belief that American corporations somehow have the moral obligation (and right) to change the way things in a different country work. > China has its own functioning tech ecosystem, so entrant companies need to play by its rules if they want to make a profit there. Period. Nazi Germany also had "its own functioning tech ecosystem". So did Stalin and Mao's even more murderous regi…
Straight to Godwin's law (in this case, I think it's germane).
My argument is about American corporations imposing morality (or thinking they can). Corporations' main motivation is profit, not improving human rights. Google doesn't go to China with the primary intention of improving human rights, rather to make a profit from Chinese citizens.
Google would have to pay Chinese taxes to operate there, their presence puts money into the hands of the CCP, an entity the author of the article doesn't approve of. Google has no leverage: China has its own perfectly capable search engine[s].
So as I see it, the options are:
1. American corporation enters China, plays by rules, causes no political change.
2. American corporation doesn't enter China. Local Chinese companies fill the void, causing no political change.
In neither case is any political change effected. If the bemoaning comes from the point of view of "well Google could have changed something," I think that's naïve and I'd like to see evidence of this happening successfully
If it comes from the perspective of "Google is capitulating or funding a government that I as the author/Westerners don't support in general", then that's an argument involving moral absolutism, which is a longer debate.
If you have time, I'd like to hear your thoughts on what you think Google should be doing.