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YouTube Bans Alex Jones, Following Facebook's and Apple's Lead

arstechnica.com

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Re: YouTube Bans Alex Jones, Following Facebook's and Apple's Lead

#121

Post by tlrobinson »

chias wrote: post #77
tlrobinson wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree people are often confused by what the 1st Amendment guarantees, however government isn't the only threat to free speech, especially on the internet where large platforms yield more power than many smaller countries. I'm not saying private entities should be subject to the 1st Amendment, but we shouldn't give them a free pass to censor just because we happen to agree with their decision this time.

Free speech does not guarantee a platform for your speech, nor does it guarantee that you are able to say the things you want to. Even setting aside "private vs government", it doesn't even guarantee that the government won't censor you. It guarantees that you will not be arrested (by the government providing you with this right) for things that you do say. Even this has a few exceptions, e.g. incitements to violence…

Did you miss the part where I said "I'm not saying private entities should be subject to the 1st Amendment"?

My point was "free speech" is not synonymous with "The 1st Amendment". The former is a general concept and the latter is one way we protect it in the United States.

Re: YouTube Bans Alex Jones, Following Facebook's and Apple's Lead

#122

Post by lovehashbrowns »

acct1771 wrote: post #116
lovehashbrowns wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait patiently for the "chosen one" to come, while he continues to grow his fanbase, spread misinformation, participates in fear mongering, and is praised by the president of the United States? Yes, sure, great plan. We can also have a grand old time debunking each and every single one of the crackpot theories that come out of the show, which surprisingly nobody has ever tried before!

No, you're right, inhibit freedom of expression. There's no way that can go wrong after a while.

There's no way letting him have access to millions of people via these giant platforms can go wrong either.

Gotta preserve that freedom of expression and the marketplace of ideas.

Re: YouTube Bans Alex Jones, Following Facebook's and Apple's Lead

#123

Post by iosDrone »

jimejim wrote: post #23
Tomminn wrote: post #12

From Wikipedia: "The InfoWars website receives approximately 10 million monthly visits, making it more visited than some mainstream news websites such as The Economist and Newsweek." This bothers me. Say what you like about his content, but it is not fringe. He is the preferred "thinker" of a significant fraction of the population. If you think the solution is to deplatform him, you're thinking about the problem wron…

You have more faith in human rationality than I do at this point. Making his content harder to get will reduce his legitimacy. Con men and frauds should not be treated with respect or debated. Also, Jones specifically used his platform to abuse people, so this is not just about being full of shit all the time.

"We only burn the bad books!"

Re: YouTube Bans Alex Jones, Following Facebook's and Apple's Lead

#124

Post by whymauri »

acct1771 wrote: post #116
lovehashbrowns wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait patiently for the "chosen one" to come, while he continues to grow his fanbase, spread misinformation, participates in fear mongering, and is praised by the president of the United States? Yes, sure, great plan. We can also have a grand old time debunking each and every single one of the crackpot theories that come out of the show, which surprisingly nobody has ever tried before!

No, you're right, inhibit freedom of expression. There's no way that can go wrong after a while.

This is just the paradox of tolerance.

Re: YouTube Bans Alex Jones, Following Facebook's and Apple's Lead

#125

Post by mirimir »

pashamur wrote: post #114
mirimir wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Especially if they're just in it for the lulz.

Not just lulz, he actually makes a sizable chunk of money from the things he promotes on the show.

I was thinking of his supporters.

Re: YouTube Bans Alex Jones, Following Facebook's and Apple's Lead

#126

Post by pvg »

myf01d wrote: post #118
pvg wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're right in the thingie you were asked to please read. "Please don't use Hacker News primarily for political or ideological battle." and "Please don't comment about the voting on comments."

>Please don't use Hacker News primarily for political or ideological battle I don't use it as such, but the post itself was political and if you don't like politics in HN, you should have removed the post itself in the first place >Please don't comment about the voting on comments You are right in this one and I apologize, but it wasn't the first time to get massively downvoted just because I expressed a non ultra li…

I'm not a moderator here so I don't get to remove stuff despite the obvious and immediate improvements to the site that would entail. But generally, they don't remove stuff either.

As to political, the issue is not just something being political - 'something something liberal media' is both ideological and also completely generic. If I started railing about how the Koch brothers are out to destroy unions and build an underwater objectivist zombie paradise in threads about any odd thing, those comments would quite sensibly be downvoted, flagged and the dementors would show up to suck the joy of life out of me.

Here's what that looks like, from dang, an actual de... I mean. Moderator.

https://hn.algolia.com/?query=author:dang%20generic&sort=byD...

The downvoting - If you see downvoting (i.e. disagreement) with your views and opinions as some sort of abuse and tyranny, you'll probably have a hard time here and really, on most forums worth reading. I'll leave you with the following famous meditation by a stalwart proponent of laissez-faire capitalism:

"You wanna work here - close! You think this is abuse? You think this is abuse, you cocksucker? You can't take this, how can you take the abuse you get on a sit? You don't like it, leave."

Re: YouTube Bans Alex Jones, Following Facebook's and Apple's Lead

#127

Post by dang »

joering2 wrote: post #59
sykhic wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Say what you like about his content, but it is not fringe. This is a man spouting off that there is evidence that Michelle Obama is a man [1]. If that's not a fringe idea I'd like to know what you think one is. To me a fringe idea is one that is so obviously wrong that it is not worth considering its merits. Doubtless there are many fools willing to consider the 'facts' surrounding Michelle Obama's gender but they ar…

Okay I feed the troll. So how much of the proof we got that Michelle Obama IS actually a women? Her look? Many transgander look much more womanish than she does. Same sex marriage? Could be? Have you seen her birth certificate (original, NOT the copy) that you can genuinely say she is a female? Yes I know she has the kids... okay so let me see their DNA test that actually they belong to Michelle as a parent. Exactly;…

Please don't do this here.

Re: YouTube Bans Alex Jones, Following Facebook's and Apple's Lead

#128

Post by dang »

sergiotapia wrote: post #119
dang wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm surprised that such an established HN user as you would say something that absurd about HN moderation.

I've been here long enough right? I've seen it happen, my share of [dead] comments.

Maybe so, but "wrongthink"? That's not even close to accurate.

Re: YouTube Bans Alex Jones, Following Facebook's and Apple's Lead

#129

Post by tchaffee »

slededit wrote: post #70
tchaffee wrote: post #3

In other discussions about this action, I've seen lots of confusion about what the 1st Amendment guarantees. Too many people think it guarantees an outcome: that the government must protect your right to free speech and make sure you have a platform for free speech. When in fact it's almost the opposite: it prevents the government from interfering with free speech, specifically Congress can not pass any laws that int…

The first amendment represents an ideal. An ideal the country is walking back from as it discovers a large faction does not share the same morals. The decision to silence instead of engage will lead to disintegration of the country if its not dealt with.

The ideal is very clear: "Congress shall make no law... abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press".

That's it. It forbids Congress from making laws. Any ideal beyond that is fully imagined and does not exist as part of the Constitution.

And we've been doing fine for well over 200 years with that simple ideal alone. With the internet and the ability to easily create a website or blog, people have more means of expressing their opinion than at any time in history. Alex Jones still runs his own website last I checked. He hasn't been silenced. Not even close. Fifty years ago he would have been the kooky guy living at the end of your street and no one would know who he is.

Re: YouTube Bans Alex Jones, Following Facebook's and Apple's Lead

#130

Post by tchaffee »

acct1771 wrote: post #116
lovehashbrowns wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait patiently for the "chosen one" to come, while he continues to grow his fanbase, spread misinformation, participates in fear mongering, and is praised by the president of the United States? Yes, sure, great plan. We can also have a grand old time debunking each and every single one of the crackpot theories that come out of the show, which surprisingly nobody has ever tried before!

No, you're right, inhibit freedom of expression. There's no way that can go wrong after a while.

Forcing YouTube, Facebook, or the side of your house to host Alex Jones' content is inhibiting freedom of speech. People and companies have a right to not say things. If they don't, then please let me know when Alex Jones will be setting aside some of his website and paying for the hosting for my views. I have a lot to say. It would be great to piggy back on his 10 million visitors a month and get a free audience.
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