Cities’ Offers for Amazon Base Are Secrets Even to Many City Leaders • Hacker News Board

Re: Cities’ Offers for Amazon Base Are Secrets Even to Many City Leaders

#21

Post by greeneggs » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 11:46 PM UTC

throw2016 wrote: post #13

Usually tax deals or tax holidays are offered to entice prospective companies but given Amazon's US tax burden is already nearly zero what else can these cities offer, free land, protection from unions? Amazon seems unlikely to choose a city randomly, its likely to already have decided which city suits it best in terms of logistics, efficiency, cost and available labour pool so this seems to be an elaborate game to s…

In 2017 Amazon recorded a $137 million refund for US federal income taxes. However, nationwide it paid $211 million in state corporate income taxes. It also pays property tax and sales tax (on things Amazon itself buys). Reportedly Amazon paid ~$250 million total in taxes to Washington state in 2017. [1]

Maryland's "Promoting ext-Raordinary Innovation in Maryland's Economy (PRIME Act)", signed 4/25/2018, provides credits against all these kinds of taxes [2].

[1] https://www.seattletimes.com/business/amazon/amazon-paid-250...

[2] http://mgaleg.maryland.gov/webmga/frmMain.aspx?pid=billpage&...

Re: Cities’ Offers for Amazon Base Are Secrets Even to Many City Leaders

#22

Post by dkarl » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 11:46 PM UTC

Austin city council member Leslie Pool, pictured and quoted in this article, is a notorious pseudo-progressive NIMBY. When she speaks in generalities, everything that comes out of her mouth aligns with my political ideals and my concerns about growth in Austin, but at the same time, she fights tooth and nail against anything that might help.

She talks incessantly about affordable housing while at the same time doing her best to prevent any new housing from being constructed. She wrings her hands over lack of transit (her favorite excuse for opposing density) and supports transit as an idea while always finding an excuse to oppose any specific proposal for improving it.

I have fears about Amazon as well (it could be fine, but it also could be horrible, and I know Austin will be fine without it) and they're the same as the ones she articulates, but to me they mean nothing coming out of her mouth when I know her only agenda is protecting her single-family-with-yard-and-three-cars constituents from sharing space with apartment dwellers and public transit users.

Re: Cities’ Offers for Amazon Base Are Secrets Even to Many City Leaders

#23

Post by dang » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 11:47 PM UTC

fipple wrote: post #17

dang wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment violates the HN guidelines. We don't want ideological battle here (not to mention low-rent rants). That's not because we're capitalist pigs or socialist moochers; it's because it's all repetitive and therefore boring, and it leads directly to flamewar. All scorched earth is the same. You've been posting a lot of this for a long time. We ban accounts that do that, so I've banned this one. If you don't wan…

Except for the first line it is a fairly interesting comment.

Perhaps I'm missing something, but it reads like a predictable rant to me, the kind of comment that destroys thoughtful discussion rather than supports it. That goes against the kind of website we want HN to be. Of course a good paint-stripping rant can be great fun (or outraging, a variant of the same), and there are other kinds of website for that.

Plenty of kinds of critique don't have this effect, and most HN users have no trouble practicing them—it's mostly just a question of wanting to.

Re: Cities’ Offers for Amazon Base Are Secrets Even to Many City Leaders

#24

Post by maxxxxx » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 11:47 PM UTC

forkandwait wrote: post #19

What prevents the elected city officials from voting No on the package once it is accepted by Amazon and revealed? Anything with legal teeth or just public pressure?

If it works like in Congress they will have only very limited time to understand the package. And more importantly they won't have had any input during negotiations. There is a lot of pressure so it would be much easier to add their concerns during the process instead of saying "No" at the end. They pretty much have to vote with a gun held against their head.

Re: Cities’ Offers for Amazon Base Are Secrets Even to Many City Leaders

#25

Post by forkandwait » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 11:49 PM UTC

maxxxxx wrote: post #24

forkandwait wrote: post #19

What prevents the elected city officials from voting No on the package once it is accepted by Amazon and revealed? Anything with legal teeth or just public pressure?

If it works like in Congress they will have only very limited time to understand the package. And more importantly they won't have had any input during negotiations. There is a lot of pressure so it would be much easier to add their concerns during the process instead of saying "No" at the end. They pretty much have to vote with a gun held against their head.

So that gun is... What? Besides losing the next election, of course.

Re: Cities’ Offers for Amazon Base Are Secrets Even to Many City Leaders

#26

Post by maxxxxx » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 11:50 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #2

DC should just let Amazon run the city government as Amazon sees fit. I wouldn’t mind living in an Amazon company town, I bet they’d shape things up around here.

Put under-performers on an improvement plan and then lay them off from the town?

Re: Cities’ Offers for Amazon Base Are Secrets Even to Many City Leaders

#27

Post by tjr225 » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 11:52 PM UTC

CryoLogic wrote: post #4

rayiner wrote: post #2

DC should just let Amazon run the city government as Amazon sees fit. I wouldn’t mind living in an Amazon company town, I bet they’d shape things up around here.

Yeah, high-ish salaries. Everyone works until 10pm. Get off work and get drunk. Complain about how Amazon took away your life and cost you your marriage, but hey they offer free marriage counseling now as a result (true story). Rinse and repeat. That's what I see around SLU. Amazon is incredibly efficient, and that's good. But please don't let them take over a city with their work life culture.

If anyone wants Amazon to take over any sort of public space they should come experience the local vitriol towards all things Amazon here in Seattle.

I was interviewing at AWS just last year and one of the interviewers(in a Virginia/remote work setup) went so far as to admit he doesn't wear any amazon branded shirts or swag when he is in town.

Re: Cities’ Offers for Amazon Base Are Secrets Even to Many City Leaders

#28

Post by wavefunction » Tue, Aug 07, 2018, 12:14 AM UTC

dkarl wrote: post #22

Austin city council member Leslie Pool, pictured and quoted in this article, is a notorious pseudo-progressive NIMBY. When she speaks in generalities, everything that comes out of her mouth aligns with my political ideals and my concerns about growth in Austin, but at the same time, she fights tooth and nail against anything that might help. She talks incessantly about affordable housing while at the same time doing…

I can understand some of the fears of her constituents who purchased houses on large lots and have seen houses in those neighborhoods torn down for multi-family dwellings.

More density is something Austin requires but that of course involves transforming the nature of neighborhoods and whether that's gentrification of the East Side with yuppie condos replacing traditional black and hispanic neighborhoods or tasteful (imo) multi-family residences in traditionally genteel white suburban neighborhoods, it's something out of everyone's hands.

People in Austin and other cities are resistant to change for a host of reasons both legitimate and not. Change is inevitable though. Fortunately I'm not a native and I don't have strong ties to the area so I'm preparing to move back home before the next 1.5 million people move here in the next decade. I'm planning to hold onto my relatively large lot and house and rent it for entirely selfish reasons, though.

It's the pace of change that locals can't handle, and part of it is all the outside money transforming the city for its own profit, the city and its neighborhoods and people be-damned.

Re: Cities’ Offers for Amazon Base Are Secrets Even to Many City Leaders

#29

Post by rayiner » Tue, Aug 07, 2018, 12:20 AM UTC

dkarl wrote: post #22

Austin city council member Leslie Pool, pictured and quoted in this article, is a notorious pseudo-progressive NIMBY. When she speaks in generalities, everything that comes out of her mouth aligns with my political ideals and my concerns about growth in Austin, but at the same time, she fights tooth and nail against anything that might help. She talks incessantly about affordable housing while at the same time doing…

> Austin city council member Leslie Pool, pictured and quoted in this article, is a notorious pseudo-progressive NIMBY.

So are most people in the cities pitching Amazon, which is why I’m rooting for Amazon to take them to the mat.

Re: Cities’ Offers for Amazon Base Are Secrets Even to Many City Leaders

#30

Post by empath75 » Tue, Aug 07, 2018, 12:36 AM UTC

I’ll be stunned if they end up anywhere other than northern Virginia and if nova gives than much more than token incentives. They have a huge presence there already and if they want to negotiate for big government contracts it helps to be nearby.