Introducing Android 9 Pie • Hacker News Board

Re: Introducing Android 9 Pie

#201

Post by izacus » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 10:16 PM UTC

cptaj wrote: post #190

izacus wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of that data is still available, just gated behind permissions that require explicit consent from user now.

Does the permission model even work at this point? The vast majority of users just accept whatever the app asks for without a second thought. The rest is bullied by platform monopolies. There is very little real choice for users.

Of course it works, why wouldn't it? If you want a crippled device that never lets anything access to data, you can always buy a dumbphone.

Re: Introducing Android 9 Pie

#202

Post by maxxxxx » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 10:20 PM UTC

Latteland wrote: post #192

maxxxxx wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope that the permissions are better to understand and control than the current ones. Right now they seem to be designed to give the appearance of giving users control but the implementation is pretty bad and user unfriendly.

And the other problem is you install an app all the time and the permissions aren't clearly laid out. I want: 1. tell me I install an app that wants "some list of permissions". 2. let me disable this permission for all apps installed now and in the future.

I would also like to give permissions only for a limited time and see a log how the permissions are being used in detail.

Re: Introducing Android 9 Pie

#203

Post by DennisAleynikov » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 10:23 PM UTC

krzyk wrote: post #119

DennisAleynikov wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right, but Samsung features go beyond UI changes. I am locked into the Samsung ecosystem by a few of these intangibles. Like: Samsung Pay (works on credit card readers) Samsung DeX (Chromebook in your pocket) Samsung Pass (auto fill with Iris scanning) Some of these features are made by other companies like, Huawei makes a Chromebook style UI too, but Iris scanning and Magnetic Payments are exclusive to Samsun…

> Samsung Pay (works on credit card readers) I was wondering what you mean, until I read the first child comment. Credit card readers around Europe support NFC (are all chip based), I haven't seen an only magnetic stripe card in years.

In America NFC is often available now but it's broken in a lot of places where the reader will reject the transactions outright. Very disappointing to use and 100% of my iPhone friends still carry a wallet.

Re: Introducing Android 9 Pie

#204

Post by wpietri » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 10:29 PM UTC

creatornator wrote: post #143

DennisAleynikov wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right Google no longer has the trust it used to enjoy. So many apps have been uploading entire call logs and it's really absurd this was so easiy accessible to all apps.

Android may have always been available at no cost, but it was never free. Always assume if you are given a service gratis, that _you_ are the product being sold. This doesn't just apply to Android, but to gmail, Drive, Docs, etc.

I think that's a good general assumption. But in the case of Android, I think of it (and Chrome) more as a defensive move. Google's business depends on having access to users. A free browser and a free mobile OS are a loss leader so that nobody can cut off their major revenue streams.

Not that we shouldn't keep an eye on them, of course. The great bulk of their revenue comes from advertising, which is all about selling users to advertisers. But I don't think Android makes the picture any worse.

Re: Introducing Android 9 Pie

#205

Post by knuththetruth » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 10:33 PM UTC

Latteland wrote: post #187

knuththetruth wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It feels like a happy family of devices all working together for a more scientific future. With this philosophy, I’d suggest you’d avoid paying attention to the trajectory of Chinese society, perhaps even more so now that Google plans to get in bed with the CCP’s censorship and dissident quashing regime...

I believe they claim they aren't really doing that. It could be the great negative attention forced them to say that wasn't their actual plan.

They said the same thing about their participation in the drone program, until an internal revolt forced them to reveal their true hand (they were actually doing it and hoping to do more of it), and subsequent internal backlash put a stop to it altogether.

https://jacobinmag.com/2018/06/google-project-maven-military...

I too hope that Googlers block what their execs are planning to do in China, but we're not there yet, and it should give one pause that their leadership are onboard with doing this in the first place.

Re: Introducing Android 9 Pie

#206

Post by curun1r » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 10:41 PM UTC

j_coder wrote: post #188

It is amazing how each new version of Android has a complete new UX and none of them are actually good. Google is basically a back-end company incapable of doing good UX (if it is more than a search bar).

I would agree with you, but after spending the last two years using an Android phone after almost a decade using iOS, I feel that Google has made some fundamentally bad decisions below the UI layer as well. Despite using a phone that is newer and more powerful, my Android phone is slower, less responsive and runs out of battery much faster than any of my iPhones.

The only reason I stay with Android is Google Fi.

Re: Introducing Android 9 Pie

#207

Post by ehsankia » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 10:43 PM UTC

viraptor wrote: post #194

cptaj wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does the permission model even work at this point? The vast majority of users just accept whatever the app asks for without a second thought. The rest is bullied by platform monopolies. There is very little real choice for users.

There may be few real alternatives. But this is a choice: You're getting the information, you're making a choice to use all features, use limited features, or just drop the app.

And you have explicit control and granular control, even if 99% of the people won't ever use it. Before, if you didn't want Facebook accessing your Microphone, the only option was to not use the app at all. Now, I can specifically disable that option.

Re: Introducing Android 9 Pie

#208

Post by monk_e_boy » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 10:48 PM UTC

bmurphy1976 wrote: post #112

craftyguy wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always regarded the back button as a completely random thing.

I've always regarded the back button as the single most important reason why I prefer Android to iOS. Interesting how different people perceive the world.

The random way the back button works -- moving to iOS I didn't miss it. There are plenty of ways to switch apps, or go back within an app.

I thought I'd miss it. I didn't. Now I wouldn't need it on Android.

Re: Introducing Android 9 Pie

#209

Post by ehsankia » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 10:48 PM UTC

fixermark wrote: post #180

mrguyorama wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

making a feature available does not make it required

It does, however, require supporting it, and those are engineering resources that could be spent elsewhere.

Software developers also often forget that UX is a thing. "Just add feature X, Y & Z". This is why you never let a programmer design UIs, you end up with a mess with dozens of buttons, menus and submenus everywhere.

Every new feature comes at a UX cost, and in this case, the cost of the UX outweighs the benefits of you micromanaging your memory footprint.

Re: Introducing Android 9 Pie

#210

Post by ehsankia » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 10:51 PM UTC

ythn wrote: post #66

hateful wrote: post #36

> We partnered with DeepMind on a feature called Adaptive Battery that uses machine learning to prioritize system resources for the apps the user cares about most. You know what mind I would like to control what apps get more resources? Me

Ugh, I want to be optimistic, but I think this feature is going to suck and here's why: I use snapchat, but I actually hate the app. It's a bloated memory and battery hog in my opinion. Is Adaptive Battery going to think I love Snapchat and prioritize more system resources for it just because I use it? Cause I want the exact opposite to happen. I want Snapchat using 0% of my system resources except for the few times…

I don't think it'll ever use /more/ resource than it is right now. From my understanding, all apps right now are at "maximum" usage. All this does it reduce usage of apps you never use.

So in practice, the resource usage of Snapchat for you would probably not change at all, but that one game app you downloaded 2 months ago and never played will stop querying the master server every day to serve you more ads.