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Apple Removes Infowars from Podcast Directory

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Re: Apple Removes Infowars from Podcast Directory

#231

Post by jessriedel »

drivingmenuts wrote: post #186
jessriedel wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple hasn't said (that I know of) that Infowars speech is illegal. Merely that they want no part of it. You misunderstand. The person I was responding to was equating the legality of Apple's suppression or speech with the acceptability/morality of that suppression. We weren't discussing the legality of Infowars' speech. > Morals differ between organizations and individuals People believe different things about emp…

> The person I was responding to was equating the legality of Apple's speech suppression with it's acceptability. We weren't discussing the legality of Infowars' speech. Well, then, to clarify on my part, I believe it's perfectly acceptable for Apple to say they want no part in some form of speech. It's perfectly legal since the American 1st amendment only binds the government. Apple really only has the power that it…

> It's perfectly legal since the American 1st amendment only binds the government.

Again: the fact that something is legal doesn't make it moral.

> I believe it's perfectly acceptable for Apple to say they want no part in some form of speech.

You haven't actually engaged with my argument about the morality of this action, just stated you believe the opposite.

Re: Apple Removes Infowars from Podcast Directory

#232

Post by [deleted] »

mcphage wrote: post #219
rbanffy wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

About half the population has a below-average IQ. If we use it as a proxy for "intelligence", that leaves Jones with roughly a 100 million potential adult listeners, only in the US. That's enough to make him wildly popular.

I have absolutely no data to back this up, but I'd be surprised if Alex Jones's listeners are especially unintelligent to a statistically significant degree.

[deleted]

Re: Apple Removes Infowars from Podcast Directory

#233

Post by mrguyorama »

nailer wrote: post #199
mrguyorama wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trying to put CNN on the same (low) level as InfoWars is disgusting and a deliberate misrepresentation of fact.

Good thing I didn't - read the very first sentence of the comment you're replying to. Then read the rest of it, which is about wanting specific consistently enforced ToS violation handling, regardless of where they're needed or the magnitude of the violation, or how much of an asshole they are. Infowars are trash. CNN is trashy, but not as trashy as Infowars. I make that abuntantly clear. I think you're smart enough…

Why does facebook need an excuse to remove something you describe as trash? Spreading trash on their platform reduces its value. Do you claim that spreading CNN on their platform ALSO reduces its value?

Re: Apple Removes Infowars from Podcast Directory

#234

Post by ocdtrekkie »

davvolun wrote: post #162
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My main peeve with this is Google Podcasts which still doesn't allow you to subscribe to an RSS podcast. It solely allows you to listen to podcasts which Google is granted permission to upload to their own servers. As a podcast owner, I'm not comfortable agreeing to Google's terms, and have opted not to participate. To which I sometimes get complaints. I don't understand why Google refuses to accept standard podcasti…

After Google Listen (and a long line of similar shutdowns -- Google Reader, Google Wave, GChat/Voice/Hangouts/Allo), why would you use Google Podcasts anyway? I'm not affiliated in any way, but Pocket Casts has been running for years and is an excellent option on both iOS and Android. I know there are some other good options on Android as well, if Pockets Casts isn't your thing for some reason.

Personally, I don't use any of them, but the issue is that people who listen to my podcast do.

Re: Apple Removes Infowars from Podcast Directory

#235

Post by nailer »

mrguyorama wrote: post #233
nailer wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good thing I didn't - read the very first sentence of the comment you're replying to. Then read the rest of it, which is about wanting specific consistently enforced ToS violation handling, regardless of where they're needed or the magnitude of the violation, or how much of an asshole they are. Infowars are trash. CNN is trashy, but not as trashy as Infowars. I make that abuntantly clear. I think you're smart enough…

Why does facebook need an excuse to remove something you describe as trash? Spreading trash on their platform reduces its value. Do you claim that spreading CNN on their platform ALSO reduces its value?

1. Because having a consistent set of rules ensures everyone follows them.

2. Yes, demonstrably false news reduces the value of Facebook. That anyone would think it doesn't illustrates the need for 1.

Re: Apple Removes Infowars from Podcast Directory

#236

Post by pvg »

zaroth wrote: post #212
tptacek wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The guidelines specifically ask you not to do what you did with this Sarah Jeong and Quinn Jones thing: Don't introduce flamewar topics unless you have something genuinely new to say. Avoid unrelated controversies and generic tangents.

I think the totality of my comment makes clear the relevance. In the matter of interpreting historical internet posts and judging whether the speaker should be censored or punished for them, or not, the lines are quite blurred. Is there not something worth discussing here — as we examine the reactions to Sarah Jeong, Quinn Jones, Alex Jones.... to me these are all part of the same movement. By which I don’t mean nece…

lines are quite blurred.

They aren't. The lines between a professional conspiracy- and snake-oil-monger, a person whose friendship with Nazis made them lose a job offer and a person against whom a targeted smear campaign failed are not at all blurred. These things are not closely related and piling Roseanne Barr on to this blob of amorphous grievance-gunk just makes it more sealion-shaped and sealion-sized. It's not a good HN topic - polite flamebaiting is still flamebaiting.

Re: Apple Removes Infowars from Podcast Directory

#237

Post by TooBrokeToBeg »

vanderZwan wrote: post #14
tazjin wrote: post #2

With Apple, Facebook and Spotify doing this (and lots of reporting about it) I'd say ... cue the Streisand effect. Sometimes it's better to just not do anything, but I guess that doesn't get you PR points.

Eh, no. The Streisand effect applies to getting attention to something that wouldn't have otherwise, and gaining momentum because of it. This is about providing a platform to someone who willfully spreads lies. There has been research into the effects of Reddit clamping down on hate speech a few years ago. Guess what: not giving assholes a platform actually works . It's still a cesspool but less so than it used to be…

> The Streisand effect applies to getting attention to something that wouldn't have otherwise, and gaining momentum because of it. This is about providing a platform to someone who willfully spreads lies.

Those aren't orthogonal. They seem to both be true in this case (what "it is about" is subjective).

Re: Apple Removes Infowars from Podcast Directory

#238

Post by jhayward »

Bromskloss wrote: post #188
paulgb wrote: post #35

I agree with the comments that it's their store and they can do what they want with it, and Jones actively uses his platform to bully individuals so I'm not disappointed to see it diminished. That said, the trend of centralization of Podcasts worries me a bit. Podcasts were one of the few real success stories of an open syndication format that allowed an ecosystem of podcast apps to flourish. I've noticed a trend whe…

> Jones actively uses his platform to bully individuals Do you have an example of what you mean?

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/31/us/politics/alex-jones-de...

[2] https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/23/us/alex-jones-sandy-hook-suit...

Re: Apple Removes Infowars from Podcast Directory

#239

Post by TooBrokeToBeg »

eksemplar wrote: post #224
claytongulick wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If someone is an asshole online, you ban or ignore them. Who watches the watchmen?

You do, none of this was done in secret. If you fundamentally disagree with then decision the nobody is forcing you to visit infowars.com through itunes.

Your whole "easy" solution is not a solution. You just avoid the condition and expect it's solved.

Re: Apple Removes Infowars from Podcast Directory

#240

Post by CM30 »

21 wrote: post #189

> The one platform that they CAN'T ban and will ALWAYS have our live streams is http://infowars.com/show Challenge accepted. Where are they hosted? The videos stream from Akamai CDN. CNN can now press Akamai to remove Infowars. Do they use CloudFlare? CloudFlare is know to censor far-right sites (but not jihadi sites).

This is basically the issue with the internet as it stands now. There is no space outside of the control of a company that might wish to protect their reputation at your expense, meaning that anything unpopular enough can be de facto banned by no one ever hosting it. It's like if the streets and town square didn't exist, and shopping malls owned every 'public' area.
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