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Apple Removes Infowars from Podcast Directory

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Re: Apple Removes Infowars from Podcast Directory

#221

Post by claytongulick »

eksemplar wrote: post #200
mistermann wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He is very clearly talking about something broader and more nuanced/complex, a "marketplace of ideas", yet you've twice misinterpreted that as a simplistic appeal to a pedantic interpretation of "free speech as defined by the US Government". Dismissing any discussion on this topic as simply "you have the right to free speech, but you're not guaranteed a platform" in the age of the internet, with absolutely no conside…

It's not broader or more nuanced though, the first amendment is very clear. Apple is no more forced to include infowars on their platform, than inforwars is forced to post an article you sent them. It has nothing to do with free speech. I can see why inforwars readers aren't happy with this, but I don't really care what they think. People who send death threats to parents who lose children in school shootings because…

> If someone is an asshole online, you ban or ignore them.

Who watches the watchmen?

Re: Apple Removes Infowars from Podcast Directory

#222

Post by KGy »

ihuman wrote: post #67
paulgb wrote: post #35

I agree with the comments that it's their store and they can do what they want with it, and Jones actively uses his platform to bully individuals so I'm not disappointed to see it diminished. That said, the trend of centralization of Podcasts worries me a bit. Podcasts were one of the few real success stories of an open syndication format that allowed an ecosystem of podcast apps to flourish. I've noticed a trend whe…

The iTunes podcast directory still uses the original RSS feeds. You can use this bookmarklet to get the RSS feed from your browser https://github.com/djm/uncover-itunes-rss-bookmarklet

You can get them from https://podtail.com too.

Re: Apple Removes Infowars from Podcast Directory

#223

Post by nailer »

tptacek wrote: post #203
zaroth wrote: post #88

This is an interestingly coordinated move. It seems a most like each of the platforms was waiting for one of the others to make the first move at wiping InfoWars off their platform entirely instead of just censoring specific episodes, and then the dominoes fall. I’ve never listened to an InfoWars podcast, so I don’t know what I’m missing. But from what I gather Alex is an entertaining quack who is ultimately harmless…

The guidelines specifically ask you not to do what you did with this Sarah Jeong and Quinn Jones thing: Don't introduce flamewar topics unless you have something genuinely new to say. Avoid unrelated controversies and generic tangents.

Pointing out that ToS violations aren't being handled consistently is entirely on topic.

The guidelines mention:

> Please don't use Hacker News primarily for political or ideological battle.

We should allow discussion of hate speech, regardless of ideology, on a thread about how hate speech is handled online.

Re: Apple Removes Infowars from Podcast Directory

#224

Post by eksemplar »

claytongulick wrote: post #221
eksemplar wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not broader or more nuanced though, the first amendment is very clear. Apple is no more forced to include infowars on their platform, than inforwars is forced to post an article you sent them. It has nothing to do with free speech. I can see why inforwars readers aren't happy with this, but I don't really care what they think. People who send death threats to parents who lose children in school shootings because…

> If someone is an asshole online, you ban or ignore them. Who watches the watchmen?

You do, none of this was done in secret. If you fundamentally disagree with then decision the nobody is forcing you to visit infowars.com through itunes.

Re: Apple Removes Infowars from Podcast Directory

#225

Post by Eric_WVGG »

resters wrote: post #192
Eric_WVGG wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only way to prevent dark ages beliefs is to shine light on them. This is the sort of principled belief I used to hold that I’m no longer sure holds up to scrutiny. There's always been a fringe that was willing to believe anything. But how do you call something like Infowars “fringe” when it’s on the same “network” as NPR and CNN podcasts? Placement like that legitimizes Infowars. That “light shining” on Infowar…

> ... but what was going to turn their beliefs around? Educating people about morally correct beliefs is a separate undertaking that is typically what members of the clergy undertake with worshipers. I don't think there is any need for such a role in secular society. If you disagree, don't just downvote this, explain what level of moral education and policing is appropriate in a free society. > ...this move may caute…

> explain what level of moral education and policing is appropriate in a free society.

The problem, as I currently perceive it, is not how society performs moral education or policing on adults, but rather how we teach critical thinking skills to children.

For a related example, there was an excellent article recently where someone visited a “flat earth” convention and interviewed various participants. What he found was that adherents didn’t exactly disbelieve in a globe; they were instead embracing rejection of factual authority. https://www.newyorker.com/science/elements/looking-for-life-...

I don’t see Infowars types as those I “oppose politically.” Their beliefs are not merely “right-wing” — their worldview is simply craziness.

If I’m right that this is a problem of rubber-stamping students through graduation who are unable to think coherently, then "moral policing" is a post-facto treatment, and what’s really necessary is prevention. (These ideas are mostly spread through memes, for crying out loud; the term is literally defined as an infection.)

(I didn't downvote you, incidentally.)

Re: Apple Removes Infowars from Podcast Directory

#226

Post by eksemplar »

394549 wrote: post #204
eksemplar wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So who determines which companies have the rights to exclude others and which doesn't?

> So who determines which companies have the rights to exclude others and which doesn't? You misunderstand: I wasn't commenting on which companies have rights or not, but about which rights companies should have at all, and where their rights stand in relation to those held by individuals. Corporations are not natural persons, they're creatures animated by legislation and can be regulated by it or abolished entirely.

This has absolutely nothing to do with that though. You can't force a company or an individual to listen to your opinion on whether penguins are the greatest birds alive.

Re: Apple Removes Infowars from Podcast Directory

#227

Post by travmatt »

tobylane wrote: post #82
unit91 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, by the private individual. The problem is many things that were major moments in world history didn't pass the ruling-class's "minimum legitimacy requirement" at the time. Top-of-my-head examples: the Magna Carta, the Protestant Reformation, Indian Independence, anybody else's independence, Snowden, etc.

What is the major moment in this Infowars topic?

It’s either the targeted harassment campaigns against parents who’ve lost children, or the attempts to push the idea that liberals are planning a civil war and they need to be violently resisted. It may sound like he’s trying to incite violence but that’s just because you haven’t stepped back and appreciated the larger picture.

Re: Apple Removes Infowars from Podcast Directory

#228

Post by travmatt »

Bromskloss wrote: post #188
paulgb wrote: post #35

I agree with the comments that it's their store and they can do what they want with it, and Jones actively uses his platform to bully individuals so I'm not disappointed to see it diminished. That said, the trend of centralization of Podcasts worries me a bit. Podcasts were one of the few real success stories of an open syndication format that allowed an ecosystem of podcast apps to flourish. I've noticed a trend whe…

> Jones actively uses his platform to bully individuals Do you have an example of what you mean?

Like the pizzagate conspiracy, or the targeting of sandy hook parents?

Re: Apple Removes Infowars from Podcast Directory

#229

Post by nailer »

claytongulick wrote: post #214

Honestly curious - I wonder how many people on here that are arguing in favor of limiting access to Infowars have actually spent time watching/listening to it? Or have they formed opinions based on 'what they are told' it is, or blog headlines etc... I see a lot of that these days. A headline comes along and describes something, and a whole bunch of people accept it as literal truth, without bothering to spend time r…

Jordan Peterson cites research that people don't agree with. Because they don't want to take him to task over research, they often create strawmem.

Jones makes things up (and has admitted he's acting in court). Some of the things he makes up - like the parents of the dead lids being actors, or a pizza shop being a storefront for pedophiles - mean that people who believe him might be tempted to expose the secret actors, or punish the seemingly-immune pedophiles (who obviously are just people running a pizza shop). This is a serious danger.

Re: Apple Removes Infowars from Podcast Directory

#230

Post by amerkhalid »

resters wrote: post #113

Anyone of average intelligence who spends 30-60 seconds listening to Alex Jones will quickly realize that Jones suffers from some kind of mental illness or personality disorder, and that there is nothing of interest or value to learn from his rants. Those who ignore the obvious signs and still choose to listen to it do so for their own, identity-driven or emotional reasons. This is the same process that causes humans…

No, you don’t always need to shine light on all nastiness on the web to fight it. Do you remember YouTube’s comment section or any other forum without decent moderators?

I remember YouTube comments being highly nasty. Many people had installed browser plugins solely to hide YouTube comments. Google finally started to remove nasty comments. And now I rarely ever see horrible comments. In fact, you can actually get useful info from some comments and threads.

And this is not a free speech issue but a hate issue. Almost all platform forbid hate and violent content. I don’t understand why so many people are equating this with freedom of speech instead of TOS violation.

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