Apple Removes Infowars from Podcast Directory • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple Removes Infowars from Podcast Directory

#201

Post by eksemplar » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 5:23 PM UTC

394549 wrote: post #173

eksemplar wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So Apple isn’t allowed the freedom to do as they want? On a smaller scale, you couldn’t get your content posted on infowars if they didn’t like it. Does that mean infowars is stepping on your rights? No, because freedom of speech isn’t the same thing as the right of being heard. You can say what you want, but I don’t have to listen to you.

> So Apple isn’t allowed the freedom to do as they want? Giving for-profit corporations "freedoms" like they were people was a mistake. Once an organization grows to a certain size, it has more in common with a government than a person. When that happens, their "freedoms" should be appropriately circumscribed.

So who determines which companies have the rights to exclude others and which doesn't?

Re: Apple Removes Infowars from Podcast Directory

#202

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 5:26 PM UTC

21 wrote: post #189

> The one platform that they CAN'T ban and will ALWAYS have our live streams is http://infowars.com/show Challenge accepted. Where are they hosted? The videos stream from Akamai CDN. CNN can now press Akamai to remove Infowars. Do they use CloudFlare? CloudFlare is know to censor far-right sites (but not jihadi sites).

[deleted]

Re: Apple Removes Infowars from Podcast Directory

#203

Post by tptacek » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 5:29 PM UTC

zaroth wrote: post #88

This is an interestingly coordinated move. It seems a most like each of the platforms was waiting for one of the others to make the first move at wiping InfoWars off their platform entirely instead of just censoring specific episodes, and then the dominoes fall. I’ve never listened to an InfoWars podcast, so I don’t know what I’m missing. But from what I gather Alex is an entertaining quack who is ultimately harmless…

The guidelines specifically ask you not to do what you did with this Sarah Jeong and Quinn Jones thing: Don't introduce flamewar topics unless you have something genuinely new to say. Avoid unrelated controversies and generic tangents.

Re: Apple Removes Infowars from Podcast Directory

#204

Post by 394549 » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 5:31 PM UTC

eksemplar wrote: post #201

394549 wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So Apple isn’t allowed the freedom to do as they want? Giving for-profit corporations "freedoms" like they were people was a mistake. Once an organization grows to a certain size, it has more in common with a government than a person. When that happens, their "freedoms" should be appropriately circumscribed.

So who determines which companies have the rights to exclude others and which doesn't?

> So who determines which companies have the rights to exclude others and which doesn't?

You misunderstand: I wasn't commenting on which companies have rights or not, but about which rights companies should have at all, and where their rights stand in relation to those held by individuals. Corporations are not natural persons, they're creatures animated by legislation and can be regulated by it or abolished entirely.

Re: Apple Removes Infowars from Podcast Directory

#205

Post by tptacek » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 5:31 PM UTC

bobcostas55 wrote: post #145

marijn wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don’t know anything at all about Jeong, other than some highly... erm... problematic old tweets. That's the power of a smear campaign, right? Planting a negative perception in people who previously had no attitude about a person. I recommend researching a bit before repeating the message of the campaign ("racist tweets"). Jeong is okay.

Yes, you have to look behind a few cherrypicked racist tweets... ....and you'll find stuff like a bizarre conspiracy theory about the Rolling Stone UVA rape hoax.[0] [0] https://archive.fo/ByFXt

Jeong is off topic for this thread, but that is an incredibly uncharitable description of what turned out to be a rather interesting piece of writing.

Re: Apple Removes Infowars from Podcast Directory

#206

Post by mistermann » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 5:33 PM UTC

iamdave wrote: post #163

mistermann wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a shame this is getting downvoted because it's a good point, and the very same can be said about late night comedians and their "I'm just a comedian bro, you expect me to be accurate and consistent, lol" bits on the news of the day. These things do have an effect on perception of reality.

I admit I wasn't at all surprised to see it getting downvoted so heavily-I was not one of them I as I agree; it's a good question-even if, directed at me-I'm not inclined to go through all of the setup and groundwork necessary to give a response in the affirmative or otherwise. Being willing to critique ones own body politic is a healthy thing. My lack of surprise comes from this strange phenomenon going about that p…

> this strange phenomenon going about that presumes anything short of full-fledged vociferous condemnation or admonishment must automatically mean harbored complicity and is worth the harshest rebuke or silent dissent in the form of drive by downvotes without much contemplation or substantive discussion in the slightest

It's not so much strange, it's simple human nature really. The strange part to me is how common it is becoming on a forum as intelligent as HN. Most people here see themselves as a cut above the general public when it comes to intellectual capability, and they're right, but even with this genuine intellectual advantage so few people seem able to notice that they too are neck deep in the cultural meme war, and guilty of many of the same (or at least similar) transgressions of those they criticize, albeit to a lesser degree.

To me, this is the big elephant-in-the-room problem we should be talking about rather than obvious idiots like Infowars, and the stakes are very high in the long term.

(.....and, possibly relevant, I'm "you're posting too fast" throttled, once again. Is that message 100% consistent with the underlying algorithm? Oh right, "freedom of speech doesn't guarantee you a platform", there's nothing more to be said about the matter, full stop. As long as we follow the law to the letter, "it's all good bro".)

Re: Apple Removes Infowars from Podcast Directory

#207

Post by Barrin92 » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 5:44 PM UTC

resters wrote: post #197

mcphage wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Anyone of average intelligence who spends 30-60 seconds listening to Alex Jones will quickly realize that Jones suffers from some kind of mental illness or personality disorder, and that there is nothing of interest or value to learn from his rants. If that were the case, he wouldn't have the popularity that he has, he would be just another rando ranting on a street corner. But that's not the case—the fact is, ther…

Simply censoring the content isn't healing anything, it's akin to putting masking tape over the injury to hide what is going on. Note: I think it is dangerous to use nazi-style analogies for content we do not agree with. Calling it an infection, infestation, etc., does not help with the rational process of discussing the issue of content which some people find objectionable, it merely politicizes it and dehumanizes t…

>Simply censoring the content isn't healing anything

Yes, it does. it destroys his platform and importantly limits his ability to monetize what he's doing, which is probably a large reason for the continued existence of the whole endeavour, to begin with.

Censorship is a very effective tool to stop people like Jones from doing what they're doing. The point isn't to heal anyone, it's to contain it.

Re: Apple Removes Infowars from Podcast Directory

#208

Post by amerkhalid » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 5:45 PM UTC

I see a lot of comments regarding freedom of speech. But this has nothing to do with freedom of speech. It has everything to do with hate. I would not eat at a restaurant that has hate propaganda on their walls. This is same thing.

He is free to publish his podcast on the internet, no one is stopping. If US government bans him, then we are in a big trouble.

Re: Apple Removes Infowars from Podcast Directory

#209

Post by joe_the_user » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 5:48 PM UTC

jessriedel wrote: post #160

joe_the_user wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More generally, not all bad behavior is or should be illegal. Not all bad behaviors are illegal but calling for active, illegal harassment of an individual, which other people carry out, is, in fact, illegal and given this is often Jones' modus operandi, his activities are illegal and his overall strategy has involved staying one step ahead of lawsuits.

Sounds like a job for the courts. I don't think any in this thread is remotely informed about the facts of the case.

Well, when a company is looking at someone using their platform for a activities that look blatantly illegal, it's common for them to preemptively ban them. These platforms have no obligation to wait for a court ruling.

In case of Jones, He blatantly defamed the parents of Sandy Hook victims in a fashion that had considerable negative consequences for the parents due to constant harassment by Jones followers.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/31/us/politics/alex-jones-de...

Re: Apple Removes Infowars from Podcast Directory

#210

Post by mancerayder » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 5:49 PM UTC

Am I disturbed at the idea of a centralized publishing / distribution platform censoring videos/recordings that it characterized in a certain way?

I'm actually far more concerned that not a lot of people are challenging the question of whether those characterizations can one day become (if they are not already becoming) arbitrary, self-serving, overly broad, or even simply 'by popular demand' removing items based on an increasingly politicized/bifurcated population.

I would argue that choosing winners and losers in the realm of ideas -- which is different than, say, graphic videos, where the criteria are easier to craft ["no nudity" or "no violence" examples of criteria with fewer edge cases] -- goes against core concepts of Western ideals of liberty and the marketplace of ideas. For if there's an objective reality out there, and each of us can seek it out for his/her self, there's no need for an overarching authority to remove "conspiracy theories" to protect our simple minds from accidentally becoming infected with false ideas.

I never enjoyed the screaming histrionics of Jones, nor his absurd obsessions, but I'm increasingly concerned that this Postmodern society is more concerned with what it views as Correct and Incorrect Ideas in such realms as comedy and discourse (the overly used "political correctness" that we often argue over so much) than letting individuals think things out for themselves.

I have a cultural foot in the door in both Europe and the U.S., and one point of contention I'll forever have with the European leg of the value system is the absurd notion that laws or norms should protect people from being offended and root out "false ideas." Not because I want people to be offended or because I think false ideas are good; instead, I simply don't trust anyone -- not a European judge nor some Apple bureaucrats -- to have better judgment than the rest of the population in this matters.

Applauding Jones getting wiped clean from these channels of distribution is short-term: one day there might be something less vile, less clear-cut, an edge-case, that gets removed and you'll have to shout to get it back. Be careful.