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Alex Jones is a crackpot–but banning him from Facebook might be a bad idea

arstechnica.com

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Re: Alex Jones is a crackpot–but banning him from Facebook might be a bad idea

#31

Post by singularity2001 »

gammateam wrote: post #17
falcolas wrote: post #10

I believe the term being looked for is "martyr". Being banned from prominent platforms in a country which professes to believe in free speech (professes, because there's a bunch of caveats) is only going to boost the signal. This (in concert with the banning of certain DNS entries) is going to bite us in the ass. Of course, what else are we to do?

It is free expression for the privately run platforms to ban him.

Please don't make it look like Apple is a random company. They are a giant with monopolies. If Apple/FB/ABC start censoring the world will not become a better place.

Re: Alex Jones is a crackpot–but banning him from Facebook might be a bad idea

#32

Post by 235rt2vf »

singularity2001 wrote: post #31
gammateam wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is free expression for the privately run platforms to ban him.

Please don't make it look like Apple is a random company. They are a giant with monopolies. If Apple/FB/ABC start censoring the world will not become a better place.

Isn't the problem, then, that these companies are Monopolies? Why are we talking about whether private companies should ban content or not, when the real problem is that Facebook and Apple have built monopolies around lock-in and network effects, and that consumers don't have a meaningful choice to go elsewhere.

Re: Alex Jones is a crackpot–but banning him from Facebook might be a bad idea

#33

Post by LyndsySimon »

zouhair wrote: post #4

No it's not. Dangerous people shouldn't be allowed platforms. You have to make it harder and harder for them to get a following.

Dangerous to whom, exactly?

If you give the power to the government to allow or disallow deplatforming, then you end up with "dangerous to the state apparatus".

Re: Alex Jones is a crackpot–but banning him from Facebook might be a bad idea

#34

Post by ddtaylor »

vorpalhex wrote: post #5
ddtaylor wrote: post #2

Not that I agree with it but the safe strategy for any big company is to ban anything that seems risky since 95% of content most users consume is benign which is what keeps them on the platform.

If social media platforms have devolved into only cat memes and sponsored clothing shoots, that's pretty disappointing for the human race. While crackpots like Alex Jones are objectionable to all people of sense, I don't trust Facebook/Twitter/Et Al to act as arbitrators of free speech.

The vast majority just want their cat memes and will actively avoid anything involving real politics that aren't essentially outrage porn.

Re: Alex Jones is a crackpot–but banning him from Facebook might be a bad idea

#35

Post by ddtaylor »

235rt2vf wrote: post #20
vorpalhex wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If social media platforms have devolved into only cat memes and sponsored clothing shoots, that's pretty disappointing for the human race. While crackpots like Alex Jones are objectionable to all people of sense, I don't trust Facebook/Twitter/Et Al to act as arbitrators of free speech.

They wouldn't have to be the arbitrators if there was a free market for social networking with different instances that set their own rules. The real issue is that Facebook is a publisher only when it benefits them, and a dumb pipe all other times. Either regulate it like a phone company, and force free speech on the platform, or force interoperability so Facebook alternatives can have a level playing field.

YouTube seems to have had a lot of success with the same strategy. They are a private company and not required to host content that constitutes fair use because, well, terms of service says they can. I don't agree with it and it's one of the reasons I don't publish on the platform anymore.

Re: Alex Jones is a crackpot–but banning him from Facebook might be a bad idea

#36

Post by ddtaylor »

joe_the_user wrote: post #24
ddtaylor wrote: post #2

Not that I agree with it but the safe strategy for any big company is to ban anything that seems risky since 95% of content most users consume is benign which is what keeps them on the platform.

I don't think banning anything provocative is a good strategy anymore. If anything, the triumph of Internet-logic over mainstream logic has involved a wide variety of people being willing to go out of their way to find provocative content. In a lot of ways, the broad mainstream seems like and often is bland, feel-good propaganda of its own - a product of both the cold war and media consolidation. Outrageous and destr…

> I don't think banning anything provocative is a good strategy anymore. If anything, the triumph of Internet-logic over mainstream logic has involved a wide variety of people being willing to go out of their way to find provocative content.

Which users do you think bring in more ad-revenue?

> In a lot of ways, the broad mainstream seems like and often is bland, feel-good propaganda of its own - a product of both the cold war and media consolidation.

It's risk adverse content that goes out of it's way to avoid forming anything close to an opinion or offending anyone.

I agree with your sentiment that banning any controversial discussion they essentially just move it somewhere else they cannot police, but I don't think those discussions are of much value to them because of the nature of advertising.

Re: Alex Jones is a crackpot–but banning him from Facebook might be a bad idea

#37

Post by singularity2001 »

235rt2vf wrote: post #32
singularity2001 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't make it look like Apple is a random company. They are a giant with monopolies. If Apple/FB/ABC start censoring the world will not become a better place.

Isn't the problem, then, that these companies are Monopolies? Why are we talking about whether private companies should ban content or not, when the real problem is that Facebook and Apple have built monopolies around lock-in and network effects, and that consumers don't have a meaningful choice to go elsewhere.

Yes, that's one gigantic problem. Before that's fixed we must not tolerate censorship, otherwise fixing it will be much harder. (Imaging the big corps to censor all criticism of monopolies!)

Re: Alex Jones is a crackpot–but banning him from Facebook might be a bad idea

#38

Post by 235rt2vf »

singularity2001 wrote: post #37
235rt2vf wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't the problem, then, that these companies are Monopolies? Why are we talking about whether private companies should ban content or not, when the real problem is that Facebook and Apple have built monopolies around lock-in and network effects, and that consumers don't have a meaningful choice to go elsewhere.

Yes, that's one gigantic problem. Before that's fixed we must not tolerate censorship, otherwise fixing it will be much harder. (Imaging the big corps to censor all criticism of monopolies!)

Touche.

Re: Alex Jones is a crackpot–but banning him from Facebook might be a bad idea

#39

Post by amaccuish »

zouhair wrote: post #4

No it's not. Dangerous people shouldn't be allowed platforms. You have to make it harder and harder for them to get a following.

Don't bother trying, this is an american site, your view will sadly not be popular.

Re: Alex Jones is a crackpot–but banning him from Facebook might be a bad idea

#40

Post by pteredactyl »

vorpalhex wrote: post #5
ddtaylor wrote: post #2

Not that I agree with it but the safe strategy for any big company is to ban anything that seems risky since 95% of content most users consume is benign which is what keeps them on the platform.

If social media platforms have devolved into only cat memes and sponsored clothing shoots, that's pretty disappointing for the human race. While crackpots like Alex Jones are objectionable to all people of sense, I don't trust Facebook/Twitter/Et Al to act as arbitrators of free speech.

This
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