Apple Removes Infowars from Podcast Directory • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple Removes Infowars from Podcast Directory

#181

Post by rbanffy » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 4:18 PM UTC

mcphage wrote: post #168

resters wrote: post #113

Anyone of average intelligence who spends 30-60 seconds listening to Alex Jones will quickly realize that Jones suffers from some kind of mental illness or personality disorder, and that there is nothing of interest or value to learn from his rants. Those who ignore the obvious signs and still choose to listen to it do so for their own, identity-driven or emotional reasons. This is the same process that causes humans…

> Anyone of average intelligence who spends 30-60 seconds listening to Alex Jones will quickly realize that Jones suffers from some kind of mental illness or personality disorder, and that there is nothing of interest or value to learn from his rants. If that were the case, he wouldn't have the popularity that he has, he would be just another rando ranting on a street corner. But that's not the case—the fact is, ther…

About half the population has a below-average IQ. If we use it as a proxy for "intelligence", that leaves Jones with roughly a 100 million potential adult listeners, only in the US. That's enough to make him wildly popular.

Re: Apple Removes Infowars from Podcast Directory

#182

Post by jessriedel » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 4:19 PM UTC

rbanffy wrote: post #167

jessriedel wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, there doesn't need to be an minimum reasonableness to speech for it to be protected. The ravings of a lunatic are and should be protected. The issue of where to draw the line between speech/persuasion/debate and harassment/threats/shouting-fire-in-a-crowded-theatre is an important thorny one, but it is completely separate from the quality or reasonableness of legitimacy of the speech. I don't know anything about…

It's not like Apple is deleting his media. Apple is deleting the pointers, as they don't want to be associated with him (which is perfectly reasonable - I wouldn't want that either). His right to free speech is not infringed. He is still free to host the RSS feed and the media files however he sees fit.

We all acknowledge that it's a violation of the first amendment if the government simply makes it hard to access speech even if it's still technically available. The government can't order Google to stop indexing your website even if they allow your website to remain online.

Plenty of people here have argued for the gravely mistaken position that free speech protections should only apply to the government, but I've never heard anyone argue that private individuals and organizations are morally bound to protect free speech in certain circumstances but this only applies if they are completely wiping out the speech rather than just making it difficult to access. I don't understand why that would be the case.

Re: Apple Removes Infowars from Podcast Directory

#183

Post by Redoubts » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 4:19 PM UTC

nailer wrote: post #154

Eric_WVGG wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only way to prevent dark ages beliefs is to shine light on them. This is the sort of principled belief I used to hold that I’m no longer sure holds up to scrutiny. There's always been a fringe that was willing to believe anything. But how do you call something like Infowars “fringe” when it’s on the same “network” as NPR and CNN podcasts? Placement like that legitimizes Infowars. That “light shining” on Infowar…

[flagged]

> Good thing I didn't

You literally did.

Re: Apple Removes Infowars from Podcast Directory

#184

Post by pnw_hazor » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 4:21 PM UTC

21 wrote: post #102

zaroth wrote: post #88

This is an interestingly coordinated move. It seems a most like each of the platforms was waiting for one of the others to make the first move at wiping InfoWars off their platform entirely instead of just censoring specific episodes, and then the dominoes fall. I’ve never listened to an InfoWars podcast, so I don’t know what I’m missing. But from what I gather Alex is an entertaining quack who is ultimately harmless…

Think about the Sarah Jeong way like this: The NYT editorial board is mostly white man. While they are probably left leaning, they might probably have a streak of racism in them due to their "white privilege". So to counter balance that, you hire an overt anti-white racist. This is the thinking in liberal left circles, they need vocal anti-white racists to balance the unconscious racist biases in the white liberal pe…

simpler: they hate white people.

Re: Apple Removes Infowars from Podcast Directory

#185

Post by rbanffy » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 4:21 PM UTC

e1ven wrote: post #13

Just to be clear - It looks like iTunes does allow you to subscribe by entering the RSS url directly. They are removing the podcast from their directory of podcasts, not blocking the ability to subscribe.

There may be a market for an anti-malware that targets content like Inforwars and classifies it as malware.

I'd love to see that.

Re: Apple Removes Infowars from Podcast Directory

#186

Post by drivingmenuts » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 4:22 PM UTC

jessriedel wrote: post #174

drivingmenuts wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> More generally, not all bad behavior is or should be illegal. Apple hasn't said (that I know of) that Infowars speech is illegal. Merely that they want no part of it. >The fact that the first amendment only legally applies to the government does not mean that free speech as a concept doesn't have moral force on other organizations. Morals differ between organizations and individuals (just ask any church, the suppos…

> Apple hasn't said (that I know of) that Infowars speech is illegal. Merely that they want no part of it. You misunderstand. The person I was responding to was equating the legality of Apple's suppression or speech with the acceptability/morality of that suppression. We weren't discussing the legality of Infowars' speech. > Morals differ between organizations and individuals People believe different things about emp…

> The person I was responding to was equating the legality of Apple's speech suppression with it's acceptability. We weren't discussing the legality of Infowars' speech.

Well, then, to clarify on my part, I believe it's perfectly acceptable for Apple to say they want no part in some form of speech. It's perfectly legal since the American 1st amendment only binds the government. Apple really only has the power that it has convinced consumers and shareholders to willingly given it (begrudgingly or not), aside from whatever power is granted by incorporation.

I don't have to agree with their decision (in this case, I do). If they were to drop some musical artist I really like (say, Peter Gabriel) I would probably feel differently, but that wouldn't make me any more right, just mad.

Re: Apple Removes Infowars from Podcast Directory

#187

Post by DanAndersen » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 4:27 PM UTC

rbanffy wrote: post #185

e1ven wrote: post #13

Just to be clear - It looks like iTunes does allow you to subscribe by entering the RSS url directly. They are removing the podcast from their directory of podcasts, not blocking the ability to subscribe.

There may be a market for an anti-malware that targets content like Inforwars and classifies it as malware. I'd love to see that.

Be careful what you wish for.

Re: Apple Removes Infowars from Podcast Directory

#188

Post by Bromskloss » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 4:30 PM UTC

paulgb wrote: post #35

I agree with the comments that it's their store and they can do what they want with it, and Jones actively uses his platform to bully individuals so I'm not disappointed to see it diminished. That said, the trend of centralization of Podcasts worries me a bit. Podcasts were one of the few real success stories of an open syndication format that allowed an ecosystem of podcast apps to flourish. I've noticed a trend whe…

> Jones actively uses his platform to bully individuals

Do you have an example of what you mean?

Re: Apple Removes Infowars from Podcast Directory

#189

Post by 21 » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 4:46 PM UTC

> The one platform that they CAN'T ban and will ALWAYS have our live streams is http://infowars.com/show

Challenge accepted. Where are they hosted? The videos stream from Akamai CDN. CNN can now press Akamai to remove Infowars.

Do they use CloudFlare? CloudFlare is know to censor far-right sites (but not jihadi sites).

Re: Apple Removes Infowars from Podcast Directory

#190

Post by jonhendry18 » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 4:47 PM UTC

baldfat wrote: post #112

jessriedel wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that private stores can do what they want does not mean that they should do what they want or that consumers shouldn't demand otherwise. More generally, not all bad behavior is or should be illegal. The fact that the first amendment only legally applies to the government does not mean that free speech as a concept doesn't have moral force on other organizations. For instance, we expect universities to act as…

Freedom of Speech != Speech without Consequences. I can say what I want at work but I can get fired for that speech. Same thing you can loss your advertisers and your platforms for the same speech. I grew up in the last house in Bethel, CT before Newtown (Sand Hook), heck my mom went to elementary school in Sandy Hook. Friends of mine had children in the school. People don't know how crazy it was the first 6 months t…

"Sure he can say it but platforms don't have to allow it. "

Yep, he has plenty of money to set up his own broadcast channels if he must. If nothing else, Jones can broadcast on shortwave. Which is probably a good place for him.