Macron Wants to Rein in Silicon Valley, from Brussels • Hacker News Board

Re: Macron Wants to Rein in Silicon Valley, from Brussels

#31

Post by growlist » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 2:07 PM UTC

simion314 wrote: post #30

growlist wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's naïve to believe these decisions are completely free of political considerations, and that the Commissioners responsible are merely the purest of heart rule implementers - on the contrary, I'd suggest that those at the upper echelons of EU decision making are by definition extremely sophisticated political operators; if not, how could they end up in a position of such power?

I do not understand how some people want free/fair market and at the same time you accept unfair practices like monopoly abuses or special deals or tricks to avoid taxes that only big companies can do, where is the fairness in the big players having advantage over smaller ones?

That's not what I said. I'm saying it's naïve to think there is no political aspect to a decision to impose a fine of e.g. billions of euro. It's possible to both make this observation and to support the fine itself.

Re: Macron Wants to Rein in Silicon Valley, from Brussels

#32

Post by jen20 » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 2:16 PM UTC

markus92 wrote: post #8

mkirklions wrote: post #4

And this is how FAANG ends up destroying democracy in Europe like our lobbyists destroyed our democracy in the US. These words are dangerous to the life of these companies. I can easily see (trillion dollar) companies starting various forms of political donations in EVERY country. Google cannot afford to lose its euro market, but google can afford to buy policies. EDIT: Whats the criticism? For the first time in huma…

Too bad campaign contributions are heavily regulated in Europe. It's a bit harder to buy politicians here.

Jacob Rees-Mogg and co would not agree with you.

Re: Macron Wants to Rein in Silicon Valley, from Brussels

#33

Post by simion314 » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 2:18 PM UTC

growlist wrote: post #31

simion314 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not understand how some people want free/fair market and at the same time you accept unfair practices like monopoly abuses or special deals or tricks to avoid taxes that only big companies can do, where is the fairness in the big players having advantage over smaller ones?

That's not what I said. I'm saying it's naïve to think there is no political aspect to a decision to impose a fine of e.g. billions of euro. It's possible to both make this observation and to support the fine itself.

So, what is your point ? Is it correct to punish bad actors but not if it could have a possible political aspect to it?

I mean party leaders/ministers are put in jail when they do illegal things(though all of them complain it is a political attack), the point should be the facts, who was harmed and how to punish and prevent it to happen again if possible.

Re: Macron Wants to Rein in Silicon Valley, from Brussels

#34

Post by addicted » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 2:24 PM UTC

growlist wrote: post #31

simion314 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not understand how some people want free/fair market and at the same time you accept unfair practices like monopoly abuses or special deals or tricks to avoid taxes that only big companies can do, where is the fairness in the big players having advantage over smaller ones?

That's not what I said. I'm saying it's naïve to think there is no political aspect to a decision to impose a fine of e.g. billions of euro. It's possible to both make this observation and to support the fine itself.

That’s just a complete straw man.

There is no one who thinks politicians make decisions without politics. I mean, the word is in the name.

Re: Macron Wants to Rein in Silicon Valley, from Brussels

#35

Post by tobylane » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 2:50 PM UTC

agorabinary wrote: post #10

One of the major concerns of EU skeptics has always been the ability (and the gall) to push ambitious acts of centralized control by like-minded European leaders. And more likely that big players like Google/FB will just buy off protections from mega-regulators than actually be "reigned in" as it always happens

That doesn't match up with history. Two of the more notable fines by the EU have been on Microsoft and Google. The UK recently fined Facebook the maximum that agency could - 500k [1]. The politicians are on record speaking out against data abusers in ways that sound like they are users. Nearly all of what the EU does centralised is still policed locally. There's barely any of the control that skeptics say there is, even if you include the control the countries willingly handed over.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-44785151

Re: Macron Wants to Rein in Silicon Valley, from Brussels

#36

Post by growlist » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 3:40 PM UTC

addicted wrote: post #34

growlist wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not what I said. I'm saying it's naïve to think there is no political aspect to a decision to impose a fine of e.g. billions of euro. It's possible to both make this observation and to support the fine itself.

That’s just a complete straw man. There is no one who thinks politicians make decisions without politics. I mean, the word is in the name.

I was replying to a post that seemed to me to emphasise the primacy of the law in the decision; having worked in Brussels I'd say there's little the Commission does that is not political. I'm honestly not trying to straw man.

Re: Macron Wants to Rein in Silicon Valley, from Brussels

#37

Post by growlist » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 3:59 PM UTC

simion314 wrote: post #33

growlist wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not what I said. I'm saying it's naïve to think there is no political aspect to a decision to impose a fine of e.g. billions of euro. It's possible to both make this observation and to support the fine itself.

So, what is your point ? Is it correct to punish bad actors but not if it could have a possible political aspect to it? I mean party leaders/ministers are put in jail when they do illegal things(though all of them complain it is a political attack), the point should be the facts, who was harmed and how to punish and prevent it to happen again if possible.

Why does there have to be a point beyond what I've already made? Your post I responded to satirised the idea that there is anything but a legal component to the decision, then went on to assert that the decision was purely legal. If I have that wrong please correct me. Otherwise, I stick to my point - to portray the decision making behind these fines as purely legal is similarly one-dimensional as portraying them as being purely driven by European envy of the US.

Apart from that I am quite happy to be free of supposed tech giants' 'innovation' when that involves them selling my personal information to whoever they choose and so support the EU from that aspect, but at the same time I have a sneaking suspicion that the rules would be less zealously applied if the tech giants were European. VAG seem to have got off pretty easily for the emissions scandal. Do you seriously believe that if a European company is threatened with EU fines that that country's leaders will not be on the phone to Brussels, and that these calls will not have an impact, moreso than a similar call from outside the EU?

Re: Macron Wants to Rein in Silicon Valley, from Brussels

#38

Post by baud147258 » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 4:18 PM UTC

realusername wrote: post #20

> France, which is the only EU country to have a law against fake news on its statute books Nope, the law has not been voted yet and has been rejected by the Senate.

I didn't know that. But the other house, the National Assembly, can have the last word and bypass the decision of the Senate (I think, I'm not a specialist)

Re: Macron Wants to Rein in Silicon Valley, from Brussels

#39

Post by baud147258 » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 4:19 PM UTC

markus92 wrote: post #8

mkirklions wrote: post #4

And this is how FAANG ends up destroying democracy in Europe like our lobbyists destroyed our democracy in the US. These words are dangerous to the life of these companies. I can easily see (trillion dollar) companies starting various forms of political donations in EVERY country. Google cannot afford to lose its euro market, but google can afford to buy policies. EDIT: Whats the criticism? For the first time in huma…

Too bad campaign contributions are heavily regulated in Europe. It's a bit harder to buy politicians here.

But you can buy newspapers and use them in support of a candidate.

Re: Macron Wants to Rein in Silicon Valley, from Brussels

#40

Post by simion314 » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 4:24 PM UTC

growlist wrote: post #37

simion314 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, what is your point ? Is it correct to punish bad actors but not if it could have a possible political aspect to it? I mean party leaders/ministers are put in jail when they do illegal things(though all of them complain it is a political attack), the point should be the facts, who was harmed and how to punish and prevent it to happen again if possible.

Why does there have to be a point beyond what I've already made? Your post I responded to satirised the idea that there is anything but a legal component to the decision, then went on to assert that the decision was purely legal. If I have that wrong please correct me. Otherwise, I stick to my point - to portray the decision making behind these fines as purely legal is similarly one-dimensional as portraying them as…

I mean what politicians are behind this? Do you think that some party has to gain by this? Or is just anti american and big European companies enjoy preferential treatment?