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Apple Removes Infowars from Podcast Directory

wsj.com

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Re: Apple Removes Infowars from Podcast Directory

#171

Post by jessriedel »

SonicSoul wrote: post #116
jessriedel wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that private stores can do what they want does not mean that they should do what they want or that consumers shouldn't demand otherwise. More generally, not all bad behavior is or should be illegal. The fact that the first amendment only legally applies to the government does not mean that free speech as a concept doesn't have moral force on other organizations. For instance, we expect universities to act as…

the consensus thus far has been any speech leading to harm/death is not allowed/legal (i.e. screaming FIRE in a theater). This is no different, we can sit here all day and try to assess who should be in charge but there is clear evidence InfoWars is leading to armed morons showing up in pizza places and/or harassing parents of school shooting victims. If this case was more nuanced i.e. suppressing political ideology…

> any speech leading to harm/death is not allowed/legal

No, this is not where the line is drawn. In the case of first-amendment protection of free speech, the speech has to induce imminent lawless action

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imminent_lawless_action

Thus, hate speech and speech that advocates violent revolution is protected.

Re: Apple Removes Infowars from Podcast Directory

#172

Post by mcphage »

adrianN wrote: post #69
mgbmtl wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen Infowars regularly mocked in mainstream comedy TV shows. Shining light on Infowars misinformation / ill intent is probably a good thing. Adding barriers to passive consumption, by vulnerable (misinformed) people, is probably also a good thing. It's not being censored/outlawed, just made slightly less convenient to access. Fake news are a threat to democracy.

Censoring "fake" news is not the way to a healthy democracy. Educating people on how to use different sources and do their own critical thinking is what we need.

> Educating people on how to use different sources and do their own critical thinking is what we need.

It is, just like we need to teach kids not to drink poison. But we also don't use "we need to teach kids not to drink poison" as an excuse to leave easily drinkable poison in reach.

At some point, we'll have educated people better on how to do their own critical thinking. But we're not there yet, and acting as if we were isn't a strategy for success.

Re: Apple Removes Infowars from Podcast Directory

#173

Post by 394549 »

eksemplar wrote: post #147
qrbLPHiKpiux wrote: post #95

I may disagree with what you say but I'll defend with you the right to say it. Apple's wrong here.

So Apple isn’t allowed the freedom to do as they want? On a smaller scale, you couldn’t get your content posted on infowars if they didn’t like it. Does that mean infowars is stepping on your rights? No, because freedom of speech isn’t the same thing as the right of being heard. You can say what you want, but I don’t have to listen to you.

> So Apple isn’t allowed the freedom to do as they want?

Giving for-profit corporations "freedoms" like they were people was a mistake. Once an organization grows to a certain size, it has more in common with a government than a person. When that happens, their "freedoms" should be appropriately circumscribed.

Re: Apple Removes Infowars from Podcast Directory

#174

Post by jessriedel »

drivingmenuts wrote: post #156
jessriedel wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that private stores can do what they want does not mean that they should do what they want or that consumers shouldn't demand otherwise. More generally, not all bad behavior is or should be illegal. The fact that the first amendment only legally applies to the government does not mean that free speech as a concept doesn't have moral force on other organizations. For instance, we expect universities to act as…

> More generally, not all bad behavior is or should be illegal. Apple hasn't said (that I know of) that Infowars speech is illegal. Merely that they want no part of it. >The fact that the first amendment only legally applies to the government does not mean that free speech as a concept doesn't have moral force on other organizations. Morals differ between organizations and individuals (just ask any church, the suppos…

> Apple hasn't said (that I know of) that Infowars speech is illegal. Merely that they want no part of it.

You misunderstand. The person I was responding to was equating the legality of Apple's suppression or speech with the acceptability/morality of that suppression. We weren't discussing the legality of Infowars' speech.

> Morals differ between organizations and individuals

People believe different things about empirical facts, but we don't think those difference of opinion mean there isn't a fact-of-the-matter which is separate from those opinions.

If you want to argue for moral relativism you need to argue for the non-existence of moral facts, which is fine and a reasonably popular position among some philosophers. But it's hard to convince anyone to listen to any of your arguments about what should be done, in this case or any other, if you admit it's just a personal opinion (like a preference for strawberries over blueberries) and you don't actually think they have any moral imperative to listen to you.

Re: Apple Removes Infowars from Podcast Directory

#175

Post by untog »

firic wrote: post #110
untog wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are plenty of offensive and overdramatic left-leaning podcasts How many of them accuse the victims of mass shootings of being false flag actors?

I can't find something that specific but here is a democratic elected official saying that her supporters should harass her political opponents https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Sus_0zebE-k

In what way are those things equivalent?

Re: Apple Removes Infowars from Podcast Directory

#176

Post by OnlyRepliesToBS »

paulgb wrote: post #35

I agree with the comments that it's their store and they can do what they want with it, and Jones actively uses his platform to bully individuals so I'm not disappointed to see it diminished. That said, the trend of centralization of Podcasts worries me a bit. Podcasts were one of the few real success stories of an open syndication format that allowed an ecosystem of podcast apps to flourish. I've noticed a trend whe…

Federate the app stores.

Re: Apple Removes Infowars from Podcast Directory

#177

Post by pnw_hazor »

foolrush wrote: post #89
wycs wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you care at all about free speech? You are willing kill this beautiful freedom we have for that?

I would happily "kill" your idea of "beauty" if it means more people can live the life you are without detrimental effects of hate speech on them, yes. You realize which country has some of the more effective and stringent hate speech laws in the world? If you do, did you stop to ask yourself why?

#cancelhatespeech

Re: Apple Removes Infowars from Podcast Directory

#178

Post by sctb »

All: there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of intellectual gratification happening in these threads, but please try at least to avoid things like gratuitous inflammation, generic politics, and all such low-information flameage. Those things do actual damage to the community, and for what?

Re: Apple Removes Infowars from Podcast Directory

#179

Post by dogma1138 »

zouhair wrote: post #25
wendy0x2 wrote: post #17

[flagged]

Can you link to some left leaning "government turn frogs gay" kinda podcasts?

Abby Martin a crazy 9/11 truther who constantly lies and bends facts to fit her nerrative to the point where even pRopagandaToday had to boot her out. Today she is affiliated with some Venezuelan news outlet but she still spreading her lies on the Empire Files and other outlets.

Re: Apple Removes Infowars from Podcast Directory

#180

Post by enterx »

eksemplar wrote: post #138
enterx wrote: post #119

so wrong. Freedom of speech is a principle that supports the freedom of an individual or a community to articulate their opinions and ideas without fear of retaliation, censorship, or sanction. - Wikipedia

None of those things happened to Alex Jones. Freedom of speech isn’t the right to be heard, mind you. If you came by my house wanting to sell Jesus and I shut the door on you, you’d still have free speech.

True, he was using a private media outlet.

They do have a legal right to discriminate which they used against him.

But still that does not change the fact that the media outlets are the ones that choose who has a right to speak and discriminate.

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