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The world is losing the war against climate change

economist.com

21–30 of 325 posts

Re: The world is losing the war against climate change

#21
post #16

We should switch to a carbon/anti pollution based crypto currency that is mined in a earth friendly way. All goods and transports and all other pollution is such a system should be accounted for. As it now with the current economic system it is too easy to offset the cost on somebody else. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons

solar mining in space and beaming the results to earth https://twitter.com/peterktodd/status/897631806899597312

Re: The world is losing the war against climate change

#22

is there a proof somewhere that these wild fires are linked to climate change? For example the really bad one in Greece happened because someone decided to burn some wood. (I'm convinced that climate change is real and we're responsible)

There is no conclusive proof. Likely climate change is a factor, but forest management practices are as well. I can recall reading that not allowing forest fires to occur in the past can lead to an increase in dead plant matter on the ground, which makes future forest fires worse.

Re: The world is losing the war against climate change

#23
post #2

Legitimate question: will there be a point where we speak about this war in the past tense, as in `The world lost the war against climate change'? How do we determine that turning point?

I wonder if future generations will think people were even serious about solving the problem. In this respect the war was lost long ago. The vast majority of people who believe climate change will have large negative consequences make no major changes to their lifestyles. As someone who rides bike for transportation largely to save money and stay in shape (I think climate change is a lost cause), the environmental cr…

A large part of it is that it is a collective action problem. If you want to talk about "effective action"? You're talking about shutting down coal plants, not going after the man or woman on the street. A person needing a car to get to work is, both in real and proportional terms, causing overwhelmingly less damage to the environment than industrial-scale polluters. If everybody who could switch to a bike instead of a car (which is fewer people, at least in America, than you might realize), you would see a blip on the graph.

Calling into question the sincerity of people concerned about climate change but also concerned about actually getting to work on time and not stinking and getting fired because their bosses don't care is just some nasty, uncharitable stuff. And it's also counterproductive. It's the "but Al Gore flies in jets!" thing all over again, discrediting what state actors need to be doing because of the actions of private citizens. Don't do that. It's bad for you and bad for us.

Re: The world is losing the war against climate change

#25

is there a proof somewhere that these wild fires are linked to climate change? For example the really bad one in Greece happened because someone decided to burn some wood. (I'm convinced that climate change is real and we're responsible)

I haven't found an academic source for this, but the suggestion is that even though triggers for fires may be unrelated, the scope and intensity of the fires are intensified due to the effects of climate change. This article discusses some of this background https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/11/science/climate-change-fo...

Re: The world is losing the war against climate change

#26

is there a proof somewhere that these wild fires are linked to climate change? For example the really bad one in Greece happened because someone decided to burn some wood. (I'm convinced that climate change is real and we're responsible)

Trying to link individual, recent news events to climate change is generally a bad idea. You're taking a long term term trend (climate change) and comparing it with short term extreme events - there may or may not be a direct link, it's hard to say.

This makes it easy for climate change deniers to give cherrypicked examples of outliers that tune to emotional responses, rather than factual evidence.

It's better to look at overall trends over time to see the impact of climate change, e.g. are we getting more of the extreme weather scenarios? Yes. Are temperatures globally going up? Yes. Are sea levels rising? Yes. Are the polar ice caps melting? Yes. etc.

Re: The world is losing the war against climate change

#27

If you look at global power sector emissions from 1998 to 2018, you'll see that while we have dramatically improved upon the energy intensity (energy/capita) and even are making improvements on carbon intensity (carbon/capita), but the sad reality is this: we are still using around 35% coal power in 2018, the same as we did in 1998. And the power sector is the easiest sector to decarbonize, by the way. If you look at…

i dont understand. you completely omit laws in your suggested solution. we need to pass laws that prevent businesses from fucking everything up worse than they already have. you can innovate all you want, but i think you should also not elect people who are fucking STUPID about climate change.

> but i think you should also not elect people who are fucking STUPID about climate change.

Sure...but that would require getting enough people who are not "fucking STUPID about climate" to vote appropriately :-)

Re: The world is losing the war against climate change

#28
post #2

Legitimate question: will there be a point where we speak about this war in the past tense, as in `The world lost the war against climate change'? How do we determine that turning point?

I wonder if future generations will think people were even serious about solving the problem. In this respect the war was lost long ago. The vast majority of people who believe climate change will have large negative consequences make no major changes to their lifestyles. As someone who rides bike for transportation largely to save money and stay in shape (I think climate change is a lost cause), the environmental cr…

I drive about 50x less than most people, but this is entirely 100% a collective action problem. There are many problems government can't solve, but this is a problem only government can solve.

Re: The world is losing the war against climate change

#30

If you look at global power sector emissions from 1998 to 2018, you'll see that while we have dramatically improved upon the energy intensity (energy/capita) and even are making improvements on carbon intensity (carbon/capita), but the sad reality is this: we are still using around 35% coal power in 2018, the same as we did in 1998. And the power sector is the easiest sector to decarbonize, by the way. If you look at…

i dont understand. you completely omit laws in your suggested solution. we need to pass laws that prevent businesses from fucking everything up worse than they already have. you can innovate all you want, but i think you should also not elect people who are fucking STUPID about climate change.

This is hard. Like, really hard. It definitely needs to be done, but it takes tens, hundreds really, of millions of dollars and a vast network of candidates who can run for office and win (US-specific outlook).

Whereas driving coal and natural gas out of the generation mix is "as easy" as getting PPAs signed with electrical consumers and getting solar and wind installed as fast as possible. You don't need to convince people in this case, as the actors (large corporations and utilities) are economically rational (cheap renewables->huge cost savings->yes please kthx).

More of this is needed, for example: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-08-06/negative-...

> Power Worth Less Than Zero Spreads as Green Energy Floods the Grid

> Wind and solar farms are glutting networks more frequently, prompting a market signal for coal plants to shut off

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