SpaceX set to re-fly a Block 5 rocket for the first time tonight
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Re: SpaceX set to re-fly a Block 5 rocket for the first time tonight
#2This blows my mind and I have naive questions.
How can the materials withstand such forces? Is a piece inside replaced (he said without taking it apart)? Is ablation a factor at all?
Re: SpaceX set to re-fly a Block 5 rocket for the first time tonight
#3OK I get that booster reuse cuts down costs, but the fact is the 2nd stage is still not reused, which limits the economic benefits needed to open new markets. We get a 50% reduction in costs, instead of the 95% reduction in costs.
You can get a 50% reduction in costs just by going to India for launch..
Is SpaceX going for 2nd stage reuse at all? That's going to be a lot harder than booster stage reuse, since you're returning to land at orbital velocity.
And then there's the whole issue of increasing reliability of the 1st stage for reuse hundreds (or thousands) of times needed for new business models...
Re: SpaceX set to re-fly a Block 5 rocket for the first time tonight
#4OK I get that booster reuse cuts down costs, but the fact is the 2nd stage is still not reused, which limits the economic benefits needed to open new markets. We get a 50% reduction in costs, instead of the 95% reduction in costs. You can get a 50% reduction in costs just by going to India for launch.. Is SpaceX going for 2nd stage reuse at all? That's going to be a lot harder than booster stage reuse, since you're r…
The first stage is significantly larger and therefore more expensive than the second.
My guess is the first full-reuse rocket you'll see will be the SSTO BFR.
Re: SpaceX set to re-fly a Block 5 rocket for the first time tonight
#5OK I get that booster reuse cuts down costs, but the fact is the 2nd stage is still not reused, which limits the economic benefits needed to open new markets. We get a 50% reduction in costs, instead of the 95% reduction in costs. You can get a 50% reduction in costs just by going to India for launch.. Is SpaceX going for 2nd stage reuse at all? That's going to be a lot harder than booster stage reuse, since you're r…
The answer is, this is Falcon 9's final form. You can get it in single or triple core variants.
All new work is now on BFR, which will have 2nd stage reusability, orbital refueling, better economics etc. I think you're also underestimating how far this Falcon will get them - their timelines suggest that this is what they'll use to launch their global internet satellite network, not BFR.
Re: SpaceX set to re-fly a Block 5 rocket for the first time tonight
#6OK I get that booster reuse cuts down costs, but the fact is the 2nd stage is still not reused, which limits the economic benefits needed to open new markets. We get a 50% reduction in costs, instead of the 95% reduction in costs. You can get a 50% reduction in costs just by going to India for launch.. Is SpaceX going for 2nd stage reuse at all? That's going to be a lot harder than booster stage reuse, since you're r…
India can not launch payloads in the same weight class as Falcon 9.
Re: SpaceX set to re-fly a Block 5 rocket for the first time tonight
#7OK I get that booster reuse cuts down costs, but the fact is the 2nd stage is still not reused, which limits the economic benefits needed to open new markets. We get a 50% reduction in costs, instead of the 95% reduction in costs. You can get a 50% reduction in costs just by going to India for launch.. Is SpaceX going for 2nd stage reuse at all? That's going to be a lot harder than booster stage reuse, since you're r…
The 2nd stage has 1/3 the length, 1/5 the weight and 1/9 the number of engines of the 1st stage, why do you think it is 1/2 of the costs?
Re: SpaceX set to re-fly a Block 5 rocket for the first time tonight
#8OK I get that booster reuse cuts down costs, but the fact is the 2nd stage is still not reused, which limits the economic benefits needed to open new markets. We get a 50% reduction in costs, instead of the 95% reduction in costs. You can get a 50% reduction in costs just by going to India for launch.. Is SpaceX going for 2nd stage reuse at all? That's going to be a lot harder than booster stage reuse, since you're r…
"Is SpaceX going for 2nd stage reuse at all? That's going to be a lot harder"
Yes, they are (and yes, it will be): "SpaceX also continues to study the feasibility of returning and reusing the second stage of the Falcon 9, and Musk said he’s confident it can be done. The question is what “mass penalty” will have to be paid, primarily in terms of the fuel needed to slow the second stage down so that it can make a controlled descent back through Earth's atmosphere.
"Still, Musk believes the Falcon 9 will get to full reusability. In terms of the rocket’s overall cost, the first stage accounts for 60 percent, the upper stage 20 percent, the fairing 10 percent, and the remainder are costs associated with the launch itself (fuel costs are between $300,000 and $500,000), Musk said."
https://arstechnica.com/science/2018/05/spacexs-block-5-rock...
Re: SpaceX set to re-fly a Block 5 rocket for the first time tonight
#9> It is worth recalling that SpaceX only flew a "used" booster for the first time in March 2017.
It's amazing this happened just a little over a year ago.
Re: SpaceX set to re-fly a Block 5 rocket for the first time tonight
#10OK I get that booster reuse cuts down costs, but the fact is the 2nd stage is still not reused, which limits the economic benefits needed to open new markets. We get a 50% reduction in costs, instead of the 95% reduction in costs. You can get a 50% reduction in costs just by going to India for launch.. Is SpaceX going for 2nd stage reuse at all? That's going to be a lot harder than booster stage reuse, since you're r…
The first stage represents about 75% of the cost of the vehicle, not 50%. This represents the actual cost of the metal on the launchpad, but not the services around the rocket, including launch control costs, etc.
You can't take a rocket to India and you can't manufacturer that rocket in India (Skilset, US based corporation, ITAR) so you can't achieve your savings that way.
Even Russia - which is using a very old tried and true rocket design - can't match prices at this point. In addition, the budget cuts in Russia have resulted in a massive reduction in reliability, which has blown up their insurance cost recently.
In terms of second stage re-usability, they are looking at that for FalconX, and it's designed in at the start for BFR. Landing something from a second stage is as difficult comparatively vis-a-vis landing the first stage, as landing the first stage was compared to the suborbital hops that Blue Origin is doing.
The latest SpaceX idea (judging by Elon's tweets) appear to be some sort of Ballute based approach.
The first stage re-use should be good for 10 flights without a overhaul, with a complete tear-down on flight 10.