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Apple Removes Infowars from Podcast Directory

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Re: Apple Removes Infowars from Podcast Directory

#71

Post by jessriedel »

DanAndersen wrote: post #46
jessriedel wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"It's not outlawed, just inconvenient to access" is more than enough influence to dramatically (~90%) shape what information is consumed with no natural truth-seeking mechanism beyond your trust in the people imposing the inconvenience. There's a reason it's illegal for the government to do this, and we should demand that neutral platform organizations like Apple, Facebook, or a university don't do it either (which i…

>and we should demand that neutral platform organizations like Apple, Facebook, or a university don't do it either (which is not the same thing as saying that they should be forced by law to do it) What sorts of demands would be listened to or have any chance of being effective if not having the weight of force of law behind it?

The same thing that induces universities to behave reasonably well as neutral platforms. It is a combination of pressure from public esteem and the moral principles of the university (both the principles of individual administrators/professors and the principles explicitly endorsed by the organization as a whole). And all of that is interlinked.

It is an awful misconceptions that the only way to effectively get other people to act differently is with law. It is lazy and leads to unnecessary use of force. Most things that are bad are not illegal (e.g., lying to your friends, being mean, abandoning your parents, cheating on your spouse) and yet occur at much lower rates than they would without the many extra-legal mechanisms that keep them in check.

Re: Apple Removes Infowars from Podcast Directory

#73

Post by ocdtrekkie »

paulgb wrote: post #35

I agree with the comments that it's their store and they can do what they want with it, and Jones actively uses his platform to bully individuals so I'm not disappointed to see it diminished. That said, the trend of centralization of Podcasts worries me a bit. Podcasts were one of the few real success stories of an open syndication format that allowed an ecosystem of podcast apps to flourish. I've noticed a trend whe…

My main peeve with this is Google Podcasts which still doesn't allow you to subscribe to an RSS podcast. It solely allows you to listen to podcasts which Google is granted permission to upload to their own servers. As a podcast owner, I'm not comfortable agreeing to Google's terms, and have opted not to participate. To which I sometimes get complaints.

I don't understand why Google refuses to accept standard podcasting convention and let users consume my RSS feed direct and download my show from the servers I've provided.

For iTunes, as a counter example, de-listing InfoWars will hurt their discoverability obviously, but their listeners can easily subscribe themselves manually in the iTunes client.

Re: Apple Removes Infowars from Podcast Directory

#74

Post by glenda »

wycs wrote: post #57
foolrush wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Social science research indicates that it isn't about "hiding" hate directed speech, but rather to consider the impact on the victims of such speech. That is, when one is able to say the word "hiding", it is spoken from the position of privilege; it is a very real existential threat to those impacted. Constricting hate speech has a notable impact on the dignity and well-being of those impacted[1]. [1] EG: https://www…

Do you care at all about free speech? You are willing kill this beautiful freedom we have for that?

Free speech refers to the freedom to not be thrown in jail by the government for things you have said that fall under protected speech. It has nothing to do with being allowed to post anything on any website you’d like.

Re: Apple Removes Infowars from Podcast Directory

#76

Post by joe_the_user »

jessriedel wrote: post #45
paulgb wrote: post #35

I agree with the comments that it's their store and they can do what they want with it, and Jones actively uses his platform to bully individuals so I'm not disappointed to see it diminished. That said, the trend of centralization of Podcasts worries me a bit. Podcasts were one of the few real success stories of an open syndication format that allowed an ecosystem of podcast apps to flourish. I've noticed a trend whe…

The fact that private stores can do what they want does not mean that they should do what they want or that consumers shouldn't demand otherwise. More generally, not all bad behavior is or should be illegal. The fact that the first amendment only legally applies to the government does not mean that free speech as a concept doesn't have moral force on other organizations. For instance, we expect universities to act as…

More generally, not all bad behavior is or should be illegal.

Not all bad behaviors are illegal but calling for active, illegal harassment of an individual, which other people carry out, is, in fact, illegal and given this is often Jones' modus operandi, his activities are illegal and his overall strategy has involved staying one step ahead of lawsuits.

Re: Apple Removes Infowars from Podcast Directory

#77

Post by pjc50 »

unit91 wrote: post #70
pjc50 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

""Debate"" needs to have a minimum legitimacy requirement to be taken seriously. You can't just make up a string of provably false stuff and use it as a pretext for harassment, Sandy Hook passim.

Sure, by the private individual. The problem is many things that were major moments in world history didn't pass the ruling-class's "minimum legitimacy requirement" at the time. Top-of-my-head examples: the Magna Carta, the Protestant Reformation, Indian Independence, anybody else's independence, Snowden, etc.

The Magna Carta is literally an agreement among the ruling class.

By "legitimacy" I don't mean that people agree with the conclusion being expressed, but that people agree it's at least an attempt at a structured argument based on actual facts. The 95 Theses were complaints against real injustices, not a set of fabricated smears.

Colonial independences generally were discussable - and discussed - at the time and in advance of their happening.

Re: Apple Removes Infowars from Podcast Directory

#78

Post by staunch »

vanderZwan wrote: post #14
tazjin wrote: post #2

With Apple, Facebook and Spotify doing this (and lots of reporting about it) I'd say ... cue the Streisand effect. Sometimes it's better to just not do anything, but I guess that doesn't get you PR points.

Eh, no. The Streisand effect applies to getting attention to something that wouldn't have otherwise, and gaining momentum because of it. This is about providing a platform to someone who willfully spreads lies. There has been research into the effects of Reddit clamping down on hate speech a few years ago. Guess what: not giving assholes a platform actually works . It's still a cesspool but less so than it used to be…

> Guess what: not giving assholes a platform actually works.

In other words, these platforms are powerful enough to silence people. Today, it's people you agree with silencing. Tomorrow, it may be people you disagree with silencing. It's not a good thing that massively powerful private companies are deciding what speech should be allowed and what should not. The law doesn't require it, but as users, we should demand that these major platforms are open to everyone, not just the ones that the majority currently approves of.

Re: Apple Removes Infowars from Podcast Directory

#79

Post by rainbowmverse »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #73
paulgb wrote: post #35

I agree with the comments that it's their store and they can do what they want with it, and Jones actively uses his platform to bully individuals so I'm not disappointed to see it diminished. That said, the trend of centralization of Podcasts worries me a bit. Podcasts were one of the few real success stories of an open syndication format that allowed an ecosystem of podcast apps to flourish. I've noticed a trend whe…

My main peeve with this is Google Podcasts which still doesn't allow you to subscribe to an RSS podcast. It solely allows you to listen to podcasts which Google is granted permission to upload to their own servers. As a podcast owner, I'm not comfortable agreeing to Google's terms, and have opted not to participate. To which I sometimes get complaints. I don't understand why Google refuses to accept standard podcasti…

That's weird considering you submit the podcast as an RSS feed. I didn't know they uploaded the audio to their own servers.

Re: Apple Removes Infowars from Podcast Directory

#80

Post by dvfjsdhgfv »

tonysdg wrote: post #26
vanderZwan wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, no. The Streisand effect applies to getting attention to something that wouldn't have otherwise, and gaining momentum because of it. This is about providing a platform to someone who willfully spreads lies. There has been research into the effects of Reddit clamping down on hate speech a few years ago. Guess what: not giving assholes a platform actually works . It's still a cesspool but less so than it used to be…

Could you link if you have it? I'm genuinely curious. I'm also suspicious -- what stops the aforementioned individuals from finding another website/forum? I seem to remember hearing that after Reddit closed down several of the more unsavory/flat-out-awful subreddits, a large contingent of those users moved to another site (can't remember which though). FWIW, I support clamping down on hate speech, but only if it's ac…

> a large contingent of those users moved to another site (can't remember which though)

https://voat.co/

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