Apple Removes Infowars from Podcast Directory • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple Removes Infowars from Podcast Directory

#31

Post by Shivetya » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 2:04 PM UTC

First off, I have never listened to or read any of Infowars material, my knowledge is from what is reported. When the censoring is not meted out equally is when I get worried. I noticed in more than one article that they labeled specific groups you cannot say anything derogatory about but left it open that other groups may not be protected.

There should be no group selection, it should be all or nothing. We also need to be damn careful of the recent attempt to brand speech some groups do not agree with as "weaponizing speech" which seems to be a new means to get the government to step in. With hate speech the government is still very limited on First Amendment grounds however by branding some speech as "weaponized" it implies violence and that does not have the same protection.

Frankly I don't mind the haters being out there, at least then I know who they are. Let them post, let them march, because in public venues we can at least assess when they are truly dangerous or not.

tl;dr censoring is fine when applied equally, be wary of anyone trying to change how speech is labeled as a means to get the government to do their censoring for them

Re: Apple Removes Infowars from Podcast Directory

#32

Post by ModernMech » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 2:05 PM UTC

iamdave wrote: post #16

philjackson wrote: post #6

What if we find out the government were making the frogs gay?

As an Austinite (well now Iowan) who grew up with plenty of Alex Jones on the airwaves, it's stuff like this I'll actually-in a morbid kind of way-really miss. I suppose you have to be exposed to it long enough to grow numb to it but Alex Jones became a source of entertainment as I grew older just to see what wackiness he'd come up with next. Gay frogs still manages to put a grin on my face even on my most stressful…

> I suppose you have to be exposed to it long enough to grow numb to it

That's why most of us consider Alex Jones to be a joke, but the reason Apple and Spotify are making this move is because many people, exposed long enough to Alex Jones, start to believe what Alex Jones has to say.

Re: Apple Removes Infowars from Podcast Directory

#33

Post by influx » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 2:05 PM UTC

It’s disturbing to see so many people give up the first amendment because hey it’s just private companies, they can do whatever they want.

All hail our corporate overlords.

Re: Apple Removes Infowars from Podcast Directory

#34

Post by bengrunfeld » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 2:06 PM UTC

[dead]

Re: Apple Removes Infowars from Podcast Directory

#35

Post by paulgb » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 2:07 PM UTC

I agree with the comments that it's their store and they can do what they want with it, and Jones actively uses his platform to bully individuals so I'm not disappointed to see it diminished.

That said, the trend of centralization of Podcasts worries me a bit. Podcasts were one of the few real success stories of an open syndication format that allowed an ecosystem of podcast apps to flourish. I've noticed a trend where podcasts make it hard to find the RSS URL or even make it hidden and require you subscribe on the major platforms. Let's not turn podcasting into the same walled garden we have for every other aspect of syndicated content!

Re: Apple Removes Infowars from Podcast Directory

#36

Post by iamdave » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 2:07 PM UTC

ModernMech wrote: post #32

iamdave wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an Austinite (well now Iowan) who grew up with plenty of Alex Jones on the airwaves, it's stuff like this I'll actually-in a morbid kind of way-really miss. I suppose you have to be exposed to it long enough to grow numb to it but Alex Jones became a source of entertainment as I grew older just to see what wackiness he'd come up with next. Gay frogs still manages to put a grin on my face even on my most stressful…

> I suppose you have to be exposed to it long enough to grow numb to it That's why most of us consider Alex Jones to be a joke, but the reason Apple and Spotify are making this move is because many people, exposed long enough to Alex Jones, start to believe what Alex Jones has to say.

Oh, heard, understood and acknowledged. I get that completely (don't know that I agree that it's a good reason to take him off the air). My story wasn't meant to suggest this isn't the case for many, but to just share an anecdote of the humor Mr. Jones brings to my life because I tend to appreciate absurdity when I see it.

I'm still sitting behind this keyboard chuckling slightly at the idea that a human being has the capacity to be so completely apoplectic over homosexual amphibians.

Re: Apple Removes Infowars from Podcast Directory

#37

Post by jessriedel » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 2:08 PM UTC

mgbmtl wrote: post #15

tazjin wrote: post #2

With Apple, Facebook and Spotify doing this (and lots of reporting about it) I'd say ... cue the Streisand effect. Sometimes it's better to just not do anything, but I guess that doesn't get you PR points.

I've seen Infowars regularly mocked in mainstream comedy TV shows. Shining light on Infowars misinformation / ill intent is probably a good thing. Adding barriers to passive consumption, by vulnerable (misinformed) people, is probably also a good thing. It's not being censored/outlawed, just made slightly less convenient to access. Fake news are a threat to democracy.

"It's not outlawed, just inconvenient to access" is more than enough influence to dramatically (~90%) shape what information is consumed with no natural truth-seeking mechanism beyond your trust in the people imposing the inconvenience. There's a reason it's illegal for the government to do this, and we should demand that neutral platform organizations like Apple, Facebook, or a university don't do it either (which is not the same thing as saying that they should be forced by law to do it).

Re: Apple Removes Infowars from Podcast Directory

#38

Post by satsuma » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 2:08 PM UTC

iamdave wrote: post #16

philjackson wrote: post #6

What if we find out the government were making the frogs gay?

As an Austinite (well now Iowan) who grew up with plenty of Alex Jones on the airwaves, it's stuff like this I'll actually-in a morbid kind of way-really miss. I suppose you have to be exposed to it long enough to grow numb to it but Alex Jones became a source of entertainment as I grew older just to see what wackiness he'd come up with next. Gay frogs still manages to put a grin on my face even on my most stressful…

if he was playing a character, and had disclaimers as such at the beginning, middle, and ending of his podcast, i'd love alex jones. kind of a "what would he say next?" sort of thing, mixed with plenty of onion-esque satire.

the problem is he's not. he holds these beliefs, and with his platform, he's leading other people to hold them as well. some are fairly benign, like gay frogs. others are downright sick, like calling the sandy hook kids crisis actors.

what i'm getting at is someone needs to mirror him, with disclaimers that everything that comes out of the host's mouth is ludicrous, asinine, and should never be considered rational thought. like the jackass intros, "you, and all your stupid little friends, should never try this at home."

Re: Apple Removes Infowars from Podcast Directory

#39

Post by foolrush » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 2:08 PM UTC

vanderZwan wrote: post #14

tazjin wrote: post #2

With Apple, Facebook and Spotify doing this (and lots of reporting about it) I'd say ... cue the Streisand effect. Sometimes it's better to just not do anything, but I guess that doesn't get you PR points.

Eh, no. The Streisand effect applies to getting attention to something that wouldn't have otherwise, and gaining momentum because of it. This is about providing a platform to someone who willfully spreads lies. There has been research into the effects of Reddit clamping down on hate speech a few years ago. Guess what: not giving assholes a platform actually works . It's still a cesspool but less so than it used to be…

The inevitable discussion about the need for hate speech laws in the USA is lurking. Sadly, the USA had a chance at them a while back, but I believe it was Justice Scalia who struck it down?

Re: Apple Removes Infowars from Podcast Directory

#40

Post by iamdave » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 2:09 PM UTC

satsuma wrote: post #38

iamdave wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an Austinite (well now Iowan) who grew up with plenty of Alex Jones on the airwaves, it's stuff like this I'll actually-in a morbid kind of way-really miss. I suppose you have to be exposed to it long enough to grow numb to it but Alex Jones became a source of entertainment as I grew older just to see what wackiness he'd come up with next. Gay frogs still manages to put a grin on my face even on my most stressful…

if he was playing a character, and had disclaimers as such at the beginning, middle, and ending of his podcast, i'd love alex jones. kind of a "what would he say next?" sort of thing, mixed with plenty of onion-esque satire. the problem is he's not. he holds these beliefs, and with his platform, he's leading other people to hold them as well. some are fairly benign, like gay frogs. others are downright sick, like cal…

Would you say John Oliver serves that role pretty decently?