I’m a very slow thinker (2016) • Hacker News Board

Re: I’m a very slow thinker (2016)

#111

Post by kqr » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 8:55 AM UTC

usgroup wrote: post #106

techstrategist wrote: post #63

We slow thinkers are among good company, including Charles Darwin: "I have no great quickness of apprehension or wit which is so remarkable in some clever men, for instance, Huxley. I am therefore a poor critic: a paper or book, when first read, generally excites my admiration, and it is only after considerable reflection that I perceive the weak points. My power to follow a long and purely abstract train of thought…

I’ve wondered recently if speed and intelligence have anything to do with each other at all. It does in IQ tests but Darwin by his account would have been average at best. Further, the argument goes that there exists a g factor, and performance in a test that is sufficiently complex will be predictive of performance at anything else sufficiently complex ... Yet if we allow time to vary this seems to be so obviously f…

When I had my IQ test results it seemed like standard practise where I was to give two numbers: one total, and one when not counting the tests relying on speed. Not too surprisingly to anyone who knows me, the difference between the two numbers was for me unusually high.

On the other hand, contrary to the Darwin quote, I scored very high on abstraction capabilities -- although before getting my results, I had assumed I was doing very bad at that.

Conclusion: you probably want to measure all subtests individually to make sense of your strengths and weaknesses.

Re: I’m a very slow thinker (2016)

#112

Post by NLips » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 8:55 AM UTC

malux85 wrote: post #19

senectus1 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm the same way! I have to train myself not to think when people give a casual "hey, how are you?". I know, right? I knew I couldn't be the only person around that gets annoyed when other ask this of me and I have to divert resources the answer the annoyingly irrelevant question. even more so when after careful considering and answering, the answer is essentially ignored. every. time.

It’s not a literal inquiry, it’s the verbal equivalent of a TCP handshake. It’s protocol negotiation, volume adjustment, and preparation for transmission.

That's how I see it, and there'd be no point if no further information is exchanged. As a sibling comment says, some people use it more like a ping, where I'm uncomfortable using something other than a more traditional greeting:

That is to say, when passing someone in a hall, I want to stick to "hi" or "good morning", and feel uncomfortable if the other person says "how are you?". If it's the start of a conversation, "How are you?" works absolutely fine.

I think the problem is that "How are you?" doesn't finish an exchange nicely. You can easily greet someone in passing with A: "Hi" B: "Hi"

It doesn't work (for me, at least) to go A: "How are you?" B: "(Fine.) How are you?" A: (optional)"Fine"

If A responds fine, it feels almost rude to abrubtly finish a conversation that had previously involved both parties asking questions about each other (even though they're really just being used as greetings). If A doesn't respond at all, that's rude for not responding to a question!

Re: I’m a very slow thinker (2016)

#113

Post by chrisdone » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 8:59 AM UTC

This reminds me of Watt's zen-based observation that we make all decisions by gut feeling, noting that it's _us_ who grant authority to outside sources, and that any time spent making a decision is usually dithering. Regarding the article, leaning on a previously concluded opinion, or saying "I don't know", are both forms of unthinking, and not being open in the moment (dithering). "I've seen Shunryū Suzuki take 5 minutes before replying with an answer. But he never hesitates." (There's a difference, see?)

Re: I’m a very slow thinker (2016)

#114

Post by NLips » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 9:00 AM UTC

crehn wrote: post #85

tomahunt wrote: post #26

A medical doctor friend of mine pointed out that thinking slow was fine, except in an emergency or indeed any time--limited situation where the rate of response needs to be above some threshold. Think: baraster responding to opponent, a and e doctor, board-room negotiation etc.

Or when fixing a large production issue at 4:30 AM when you're the only one awake.

My advice (can't remember where this is stolen from) when you need to fix a production issue in a short amount of time:

Don't just do something; sit there!

Re: I’m a very slow thinker (2016)

#115

Post by dredmorbius » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 9:00 AM UTC

Netcob wrote: post #110

That's why I don't like meetings where you're supposed to come up with a solution on the spot and then break it down into tasks immediately. That only works if you have lots of closely related experience so that the solution is trivial to you anyway, or if you're a genius. Most of the time you end up with shitty "knee-jerk" software that focuses on technical details way too much instead of solving the problem. I'll t…

"Creativity is not a team sport", an observation from Prof Vincent Walsh on neuroscience of creativity:

[There's] a very long and well-established literature in psychology that getting groups of people together is no way to come up with ideas. Creativity is not a team sport. What you're looking for is somebody's individual, intellectual trunk to make new connections and come up with something new.

Let's imagine billions of neurons in my head communicating with stuff they've been talking about all their lives together: there's a high probability that occasionally they'll come up with something new. Let's now think of the line of communication that you and I have got between each other, which is impoverished, because we have to try and translate complex ideas into language, and how many times do you find you've got a good idea, it's almost in symbolic thought inside your head, and you really can't articulate it to someone. And when you do, they get the wrong idea, because really, language can't encapsulate it until it's fully formed. There's no good evidence that I know of that these brainstorming sessions will come up with a solution or a new idea.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfMvqkrQkYQ

Re: I’m a very slow thinker (2016)

#116

Post by lifeisstillgood » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 9:01 AM UTC

some_account wrote: post #107

usgroup wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve wondered recently if speed and intelligence have anything to do with each other at all. It does in IQ tests but Darwin by his account would have been average at best. Further, the argument goes that there exists a g factor, and performance in a test that is sufficiently complex will be predictive of performance at anything else sufficiently complex ... Yet if we allow time to vary this seems to be so obviously f…

I think most people with high iq are awful to work with since they obviously lose interest trying to explain things to less intelligent people. This makes people feel bad around them, and they avoid asking them things. I have seen nice people with high iq but I think it's more common that they are not great around people.

I am not sure about that - those people I know who are waaay cleverer than me have bad days of course, but mostly if you ask them to explain the subject they love, they will talk (down) for days without getting bored.

Perhaps it's true for us all, we love to talk about what we do.

Re: I’m a very slow thinker (2016)

#117

Post by lifeisstillgood » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 9:02 AM UTC

dredmorbius wrote: post #115

Netcob wrote: post #110

That's why I don't like meetings where you're supposed to come up with a solution on the spot and then break it down into tasks immediately. That only works if you have lots of closely related experience so that the solution is trivial to you anyway, or if you're a genius. Most of the time you end up with shitty "knee-jerk" software that focuses on technical details way too much instead of solving the problem. I'll t…

"Creativity is not a team sport", an observation from Prof Vincent Walsh on neuroscience of creativity: [There's] a very long and well-established literature in psychology that getting groups of people together is no way to come up with ideas. Creativity is not a team sport. What you're looking for is somebody's individual, intellectual trunk to make new connections and come up with something new. Let's imagine billi…

This I get - i often have an idea of how some code should look or work, but trying to explain it or justify it in a JIRA ticket is flat out impossible - it's easier just to write it and go there !

Re: I’m a very slow thinker (2016)

#118

Post by projektir » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 9:04 AM UTC

chrisdone wrote: post #113

This reminds me of Watt's zen-based observation that we make all decisions by gut feeling, noting that it's _us_ who grant authority to outside sources, and that any time spent making a decision is usually dithering. Regarding the article, leaning on a previously concluded opinion, or saying "I don't know", are both forms of unthinking, and not being open in the moment (dithering). "I've seen Shunryū Suzuki take 5 mi…

Maybe that's just me but I am having serious trouble understanding what you're saying.

"I don't know" is unthinking? What does unthinking mean? Or dithering, for that matter?

Why is hesitation relevant here? Why is it bad?

Re: I’m a very slow thinker (2016)

#119

Post by dredmorbius » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 9:07 AM UTC

buchanae wrote: post #12

I'm the same way! I have to train myself not to think when people give a casual "hey, how are you?". The book "Quiet: The Power of Introverts" has an interesting message about how introverts struggle to fit into an image of society where one must be a quick-witted extrovert in order to be successful and powerful. I think it's the same for fast vs slow thinkers. It's important to know your a slow thinker, and accept i…

In linguistics, a phatic expression /ˈfætɪk/ is communication which serves a social function, such as social pleasantries that don't seek or offer any information of value.[1] Phatic expressions are a socio-pragmatic function and are used in everyday conversational exchange typically expressed in situational instances that call for social cues.[2] In speech communication the term means "small talk" (conversation for its own sake) and has also been called "grooming talking."[3]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phatic_expression

Re: I’m a very slow thinker (2016)

#120

Post by dredmorbius » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 9:08 AM UTC

truklendic wrote: post #16

Yes. Debates are a mechanism by which existing knowledge is diffused around society and culture. But creating something new and interesting is a slow, messy and iterative process.

Rhetoric vs. dialectic.