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Show HN: PJON v11.1 an independent, decentralized, open-source protocol

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Re: Show HN: PJON v11.1 an independent, decentralized, open-source protocol

#21

Post by gioscarab »

plainOldText wrote: post #19
gioscarab wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ciao dozzie, I have omitted "implementation" from the title because I thought that was obvious enough. It seems not. The project proposes both an independent research in defining a specification, and also an open-source implementation based on that specification. If you want to know what it does, read the specifications or at least the first sentences of the README :) "PJON® (Padded Jittering Operative Network) is an…

I think the OP’s critique of your README being vague is fair. Although judging from the downvotes, he comes across a little harsh. Your README is needlessly abstract. It’s tantamount to saying you’ve invented a new wheel. Well, wheels have all sorts of specifications, they're made of various materials, can have different weights, etc. They also have all sorts of use cases. From plastic wheels used in toys, rubber whe…

PJON is a general purpose "wheel" designed to work on a "charriot" (ATtiny85) as well as on a "formula 1" (real time operative system like linux, winx86, macosx). It has an "all weather tire" able to run on "mud", "tarmac" and "sand" (it operates layer 2 or the data-link agnostically).

Probably for this reason the README seems too general and not specific. The protocol is made NOT to be specific and its implementation is done to be executed (the same codebase) everywhere being 100% software "defined" or "emulated".

see: https://www.pjon.org/why.php

Re: Show HN: PJON v11.1 an independent, decentralized, open-source protocol

#22

Post by [deleted] »

gioscarab wrote: post #3
dozzie wrote: post #2

Protocol cannot be open source . It can have a full specification published. A protocol does not have a source code, it's something that its implementation can have. Also, what the heck does it do? Neither README nor title says anything about that. The closest thing to such description is mentioning that it "supports multimedia", whatever that means.

Ciao dozzie, I have omitted "implementation" from the title because I thought that was obvious enough. It seems not. The project proposes both an independent research in defining a specification, and also an open-source implementation based on that specification. If you want to know what it does, read the specifications or at least the first sentences of the README :) "PJON® (Padded Jittering Operative Network) is an…

[deleted]

Re: Show HN: PJON v11.1 an independent, decentralized, open-source protocol

#23

Post by dustingetz »

The wiki is a better overview – https://github.com/gioblu/PJON/wiki

This is an abstract network stack for raspberry pi- type devices so they can talk to each other while sheltered from the underlying network interface (wifi, radio, wire, light impulses, etc) and sits on top of whatever transport protocol (UDP, TCP, Serial). By "multi-media" he means the physical layer, "media like electricity, radio and light"

Re: Show HN: PJON v11.1 an independent, decentralized, open-source protocol

#24

Post by gioscarab »

dustingetz wrote: post #23

The wiki is a better overview – https://github.com/gioblu/PJON/wiki This is an abstract network stack for raspberry pi- type devices so they can talk to each other while sheltered from the underlying network interface (wifi, radio, wire, light impulses, etc) and sits on top of whatever transport protocol (UDP, TCP, Serial). By "multi-media" he means the physical layer, "media like electricity, radio and light"

ciao dustin, more than "abstract" I would say "software defined" or "software emulated". Yes, data-links are abstracted and treated by PJON "agnostically". PJON can also use higher level protocols like UDP TCP as "data-links". I think this, although could be considered by many as a layering violation, may be extremely useful for building a decentralized network infrastructure while still having the chance to hop through the internet if required

Re: Show HN: PJON v11.1 an independent, decentralized, open-source protocol

#25

Post by tomjakubowski »

dozzie wrote: post #2

Protocol cannot be open source . It can have a full specification published. A protocol does not have a source code, it's something that its implementation can have. Also, what the heck does it do? Neither README nor title says anything about that. The closest thing to such description is mentioning that it "supports multimedia", whatever that means.

Sheesh, you are being way too harsh.

But I too was confused by what this PJON thing was supposed to do, until I looked up i2c, because of this line early in the README: "It was originally developed as an open-source alternative to i2c and 1-Wire"

"The Inter-integrated Circuit (I2C) Protocol is a protocol intended to allow multiple “slave” digital integrated circuits (“chips”) to communicate with one or more “master” chips. Like the Serial Peripheral Interface (SPI), it is only intended for short distance communications within a single device. Like Asynchronous Serial Interfaces (such as RS-232 or UARTs), it only requires two signal wires to exchange information."

So it's a very low level, _literal_ wire protocol, I guess. I don't know much about hardware.

https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/i2c https://learn.sparkfun.com/tutorials/i2c#protocol

Re: Show HN: PJON v11.1 an independent, decentralized, open-source protocol

#27

Post by mendesgeo »

gioscarab wrote: post #13
dozzie wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course it doesn't need to be audio nor video. It doesn't change the fact that you used a term that has more than one meaning without providing any context in which to interpret it. If somebody misreads it, then the problem is with your prose, not with the reader.

Which word would you suggest to use instead of "multi-media" to refer to this characteristic?

Multi-physical layer communication protocol also could be the best way to describe it in one word.

Re: Show HN: PJON v11.1 an independent, decentralized, open-source protocol

#28

Post by dang »

dozzie wrote: post #2

Protocol cannot be open source . It can have a full specification published. A protocol does not have a source code, it's something that its implementation can have. Also, what the heck does it do? Neither README nor title says anything about that. The closest thing to such description is mentioning that it "supports multimedia", whatever that means.

You've violated the guidelines for Show HNs: https://news.ycombinator.com/showhn.html. The site guidelines too: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.

Please don't go into attack mode here. The last thing someone needs when they take the risk of sharing their work on a large public forum is someone pettily berating them and then hounding them when they try to reply. If you were genuinely interested in getting information or providing feedback, there are lots of ways to do it that don't come across as just wanting to pound something.

Edit: it looks like we've already had to warn you about not being a bully on Hacker News. Moreover, it looks like you've been posting like this a lot. This is something we ban accounts for if people keep doing it, so please take the spirit of this site to heart and treat your fellow community members better from now on.

Re: Show HN: PJON v11.1 an independent, decentralized, open-source protocol

#29

Post by dozzie »

dang wrote: post #28
dozzie wrote: post #2

Protocol cannot be open source . It can have a full specification published. A protocol does not have a source code, it's something that its implementation can have. Also, what the heck does it do? Neither README nor title says anything about that. The closest thing to such description is mentioning that it "supports multimedia", whatever that means.

You've violated the guidelines for Show HNs: https://news.ycombinator.com/showhn.html . The site guidelines too: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html . Please don't go into attack mode here. The last thing someone needs when they take the risk of sharing their work on a large public forum is someone pettily berating them and then hounding them when they try to reply. If you were genuinely interested in ge…

> Please don't go into attack mode here. [...]

> Edit: it looks like we've already had to warn you about not being a bully on Hacker News. Moreover, it looks like you've been posting like this a lot.

OK then, please be more specific here. You're being so generic that I can't tell what exactly is wrong with my posts (apart from being disliked) and what should I change to keep me from being banned. The only thing I can think of is to stay away from any commenting at all. If you criticise from your high horse of being a moderator and wielding the power to ban people, at least be constructive in doing so.

Re: Show HN: PJON v11.1 an independent, decentralized, open-source protocol

#30

Post by zaarn »

PJON is a very interesting project and I've used it in the past between a RPi and an Arduino to communicate.

Atm I'm developing my own bus protocol since PJON was having some problems with the optocouplers I have (the line I need has almost a millisecond of lag and doesn't allow for a frequency beyond a couple kilohertz as it needs to get to several devices at different logic levels and has some longer lines with higher voltages that limit response times). Surprisingly there isn't a good bus protocol that can deal with symbolrates below 1000 per second, multi master and really bad line conditions and long timeouts.

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