I’m a very slow thinker (2016) • Hacker News Board

Re: I’m a very slow thinker (2016)

#51

Post by finaliteration » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 3:38 AM UTC

alister wrote: post #46

I'm wondering if what Sivers feels about himself is true for everyone. Maybe those sharp people who give an insightful reply right off the bat would give an even better reply if they had more time. This is why I prefer email over instant messaging, phone calls, or collaborative online chat when asking questions (except trivial questions). I want a considered reply, not something off the cuff.

I’m one of those “sharp” people and I often feel like I’m keeping up and thinking quickly enough but constantly stumble over my words. It’s difficult for me to take what’s in my head and turn it into an immediate verbal response sometimes, which leaves me feeling incredibly stupid or like I’m not making sense. I very often find that if I sit down and write something out I can communicate it much more clearly, with the added benefit that I can also take a bit more time to recheck my work before giving a response.

Re: I’m a very slow thinker (2016)

#52

Post by westoncb » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 3:41 AM UTC

This used to frustrate me too, but gradually my position on the matter has shifted. There's a difference between really trying to solve some problem versus engaging in conversation with someone. I understand the temptation to insist on answering the question for real—which can almost certainly not be done in the moment—but generally, when you get into this situation of being asked a deep question in conversation, your interlocutor is not expecting you to actually solve the problem at hand; (best case scenario) they may just want to try working with you on it, or see how you would approach it, or (probably most common scenario) they just want to be recognized for having suggested the problem—or any number of other motivations. Point is, the motivation of actually seeking an answer is fairly uncommon. Honestly though, my tendency is still to try and answer it for real, but I at least think about this greater context for the question now (and at least sometimes treat the situation differently as a consequence).

Re: I’m a very slow thinker (2016)

#53

Post by nevir » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 3:47 AM UTC

westoncb wrote: post #52

This used to frustrate me too, but gradually my position on the matter has shifted. There's a difference between really trying to solve some problem versus engaging in conversation with someone. I understand the temptation to insist on answering the question for real—which can almost certainly not be done in the moment—but generally, when you get into this situation of being asked a deep question in conversation, you…

> they just want to be recognized for having suggested the problem

In a business setting, I find that this case is often more of the variety of "they are suggesting the problem, and are implying/expecting someone else to solve it" (where someone _may_ be you)

Re: I’m a very slow thinker (2016)

#54

Post by arketyp » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 3:51 AM UTC

Sometimes it is not the substance of the reply that matters but the way in which you respond. It's called performativity. Women are more sensitive to this, and introspective guys typically fail at it.

Re: I’m a very slow thinker (2016)

#55

Post by JustMatthew » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 3:52 AM UTC

I love reading pieces that put words to something I've felt, but never expressed before. This is definitely one of those pieces.

Everyone is different, and I am sure people will agree or disagree with the point the author makes to varying degrees depending on their own lived experiences and abilities, but after reading this I think it'd be difficult for anyone to not admit that there is most certainly value in taking an asynchronous approach to conversations and discussions.

And man, does this quote provides some hearty food for thought or what: "Your first reaction is usually outdated."

Re: I’m a very slow thinker (2016)

#56

Post by westoncb » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 3:53 AM UTC

Pimpus wrote: post #32

weberc2 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I relate to the author of the original article in that I'm a slow thinker. I really envy people who can vocalize intelligent, confident decisions or opinions on the spot. I don't like feeling stupid because I can't articulate moderately complex thoughts on the spot. It feels like I don't think in words anymore, but rather in something like abstract math (not like a savant, mind you), and translating back to words acc…

Getting sharper takes practice. I like to unwind on forums too but it's not pushing you to think faster. Also, getting your thoughts, actions, and words all in alignment will help, as there will be less hesitation on each front.

I think a key aspect to the situation though is that you won't get faster by trying to get faster. Of all places, I learned this while working in a grocery store, but have since verified the phenomenon in other domains (for example, reading; and it also just makes psychological sense).

I had been stocking groceries for about a month when I had an interesting conversation with two senior employees (20 or 30 years a piece at the job). One of them was telling me that I was doing well but that I needed to start going more quickly. The other saw the mistake in this advice and said something along the lines of, "Well, hold on, though: you know speed comes naturally with practice. He'll get faster once he knows the work better." The other senior employee thought about it for a second, and then agreed in full and admitted their mistake. As a consequence, I focused on learning my work well instead of trying to be fast—and I became one of the fastest stockers in the store within a year.

I don't think you can will speed to happen, or train it specially: it's a consequence of already having solved the problems at hand before, already knowing the solutions and not needing to figure things out in the moment.

So you aren't going to 'get sharper'; you'll just learn particular domains better or not, and the ones you know better you'll be perceived as sharper in.

Re: I’m a very slow thinker (2016)

#57

Post by princeb » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 3:57 AM UTC

like to put it out to you to not think of 'fast thinkers' as people who can think on the spot, but actually people who have spent a lot of time and effort thinking ahead of time, so that when a question or situation arises, the remaining effort is simply pattern-matching and recall. the even better ones prepare a logical narrative for the purpose of knowledge diffusion and education even if the opportunity to use these are even harder to come by.

because there are situations that require time-critical decision making and analysis - i speak from a conveniently relevant environment which is the financial markets - and the best of the business here are those who have prepared plan A's to plan Z's well ahead of time.

Re: I’m a very slow thinker (2016)

#58

Post by westoncb » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 4:00 AM UTC

voltagex_ wrote: post #20

Swizec wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would be surprised how often people don't even notice if you respond to "hey, how are you", with "hi". But, really, the script you're meant to follow goes like this: Hey how are you? Hey, good, how about you? Pretty good Then, if the conversation is meant to continue, which it most often is not, one of you says "So ... what's up in your life?" or "So ... how's that thing you're working on going?" or some other mo…

I wonder if it's an Australian thing for the response to "how ya goin'?" to be "how ya goin'?".

We also have this in certain corners of the U.S.:

A: "'sup [man]?" B: "'sup?"

(It's also stated only has like a half-question or less—the usual question lilt is deemphasized.)

Re: I’m a very slow thinker (2016)

#59

Post by Pimpus » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 4:01 AM UTC

westoncb wrote: post #56

Pimpus wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Getting sharper takes practice. I like to unwind on forums too but it's not pushing you to think faster. Also, getting your thoughts, actions, and words all in alignment will help, as there will be less hesitation on each front.

I think a key aspect to the situation though is that you won't get faster by trying to get faster. Of all places, I learned this while working in a grocery store, but have since verified the phenomenon in other domains (for example, reading; and it also just makes psychological sense). I had been stocking groceries for about a month when I had an interesting conversation with two senior employees (20 or 30 years a pi…

Well, I've gotten a lot sharper over the past year. And comparing myself to five years ago, the difference is night and day.

Hmm, I see I got downvoted. Whatever.

Re: I’m a very slow thinker (2016)

#60

Post by westoncb » Mon, Aug 06, 2018, 4:15 AM UTC

3rdAccount wrote: post #14

I really struggled on college engineering exams and in general got lower scores than classmates that I had to tutor. Part of this was due to drastically over thinking and over-analyzing test questions. Some are extremely straightforward, but others can be interpreted several ways, although the normal person always chooses one method and it is obvious to them. I can make quick decisions on the fly in a leadership role…

I've been thinking a bit about this phenomenon recently. It seemed like a vague sort of problem I was having in various contexts (first time I noticed it was working on math problems), but there wasn't a good way of stating it without it sounding like unadulterated arrogance (I'm limited because I think of SO MANY POSSIBILITIES! :P)—but I think it's real. I was reading a review for the book "Proofs and Refutations" the other day, which included this bit:

> If you are someone who has trouble reading or writing proofs because you keep thinking of weird edge cases and have to verify that the proof handles all of them, ...

(this is a work on the philosophy of proving things in mathematics, btw, and they go on to recommend it to those with the above affliction.)

I could recognize the pattern being discussed there as exactly the thing I'd perceived myself running into. Interesting to see it repeated again in your comment :)