How Companies Make Millions Charging Prisoners to Send an Email • Hacker News Board

Re: How Companies Make Millions Charging Prisoners to Send an Email

#71

Post by mindslight » Sat, Aug 04, 2018, 8:28 PM UTC

imnotlost wrote: post #58

Here you are, after making some mistakes and behaving very badly, the State has full control of you. They then limit how much you can communicate with normal people. They are complicit in you being exploited financially. They look the other way if you are physically or sexually abused. When you've served your time no one will hire you and you're limited from interacting with society normally. And we, society, think t…

It's an inevitable outcome from the myopic viewing of rights as enumerated primitives, rather than qualitatively - the mob is constantly looking for ways to justify why those rights don't apply to a given person. Prisoners are a super easy target, as their right to liberty is already being violated (justifiably, I think).

Driving a car (even though it's de facto mandatory) - bye-bye rights. On privatized commons (like a shopping mall or Faceboot) - bye-bye rights. Forced to contract for (employment, housing, food, etc) - bye-bye rights. Affecting your own consciousness with substances - bye-bye rights. Caught peeing in some bushes - bye-bye all of your rights.

And all the while, the majority cheers because it is inherently their norms being enforced. The concept of rights wasn't meant to protect the majority, but good luck getting that point across to the majority!

Re: How Companies Make Millions Charging Prisoners to Send an Email

#72

Post by swalsh » Sat, Aug 04, 2018, 9:20 PM UTC

dplgk wrote: post #20

30 years for armed robbery? I've seen less for murder. Maybe Kim Kardashian can get him pardoned. On topic: if you see prison as a punishment then paying for email is part of it. If you see prison as a place to store bad people but treat them fairly while they're there, then I guess it's morally wrong. As the risk of whataboutism, charging for email is really the least of our moral problems with prisons. People are p…

Some people commit crime because they have things biologically wrong with them. I'm not convinced they're anything but a minority. I think most offenders violent or not end up there because a series of bad decisions. I'd hope prisons could be placed to help put people on better paths. Paying extortion prices for email isn't helping them.

Re: How Companies Make Millions Charging Prisoners to Send an Email

#73

Post by ericmcer » Sat, Aug 04, 2018, 9:59 PM UTC

whatshisface wrote: post #21

wayanon wrote: post #9

How is it moral for people to get rich from imprisonment?

Another question might be, how isn't it? In every other area of society, if someone is very good at arranging things to achieve some widely valued goal, we think it's OK for them to get rich. If someone is the best jailer in the world would it not be reasonable to reward them? Operating a prison is a lot of work. The problem is that they are being rewarded for doing the wrong things, there's no problem with rewarding…

As soon as the monetary reward for doing well is dependent on government contracts, free market values and morals no longer apply.

Re: How Companies Make Millions Charging Prisoners to Send an Email

#74

Post by akudha » Sat, Aug 04, 2018, 10:14 PM UTC

wayanon wrote: post #9

How is it moral for people to get rich from imprisonment?

Getting rich by

charging insane amounts of money from sick people (healthcare) charging insane premiums and still trying every way to not pay when a person does fall sick charging insane amounts of money in fees from students, selling textbooks for hundreds of dollars, putting them in debt for life - all with not even a guarantee of half decent job when they finish their course making sure workers get slightly less hours than required, so they don't have to pay benefits creating private prisons (WTF)

and on and on...

How is any of this moral?

Ah, it is just business, nothing personal.

How many decisions are made with morality and ethics in mind vs legality in the business world?

This is what happens if we reduce everything to profit and loss

Re: How Companies Make Millions Charging Prisoners to Send an Email

#75

Post by albertgoeswoof » Sat, Aug 04, 2018, 10:51 PM UTC

themihai wrote: post #31

albertgoeswoof wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you have to let them out at some point. The longer they’re in the more likely they’re going to be to commit crime when they do leave.

Without some rehabilitation programs chances are that they will get back to prison regardless of how long or short it's their stay. I guess the gov has to decide if it's worth to pay for rehabilitation or just keep them in jails. The latter is easier to implement and to sell.

Re-offending rates are lower in counties that do provide rehabilitation rates, it’s pretty well known. So the US government is wrong on this point if that’s what they’re judging against.

Most people in positions of influence aren’t stupid though- clearly there is something else swaying the decision. I would imagine that for-profit prisons are probably the root cause.

Re: How Companies Make Millions Charging Prisoners to Send an Email

#76

Post by bdcravens » Sat, Aug 04, 2018, 10:58 PM UTC

rhizome wrote: post #63

bdcravens wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's value in reducing recidivism and escapes. More practically, jails are understaffed, and there's tremendous political value in making Joe Public feel safer.

there's tremendous political value in making Joe Public feel safer. On this point, without looking it up, what do you estimate the overall recidivism rate to be? Just in a general conversational sense.

Depends on the crime and incarceration level.

Re: How Companies Make Millions Charging Prisoners to Send an Email

#77

Post by jjeaff » Sun, Aug 05, 2018, 12:44 AM UTC

akudha wrote: post #74

wayanon wrote: post #9

How is it moral for people to get rich from imprisonment?

Getting rich by charging insane amounts of money from sick people (healthcare) charging insane premiums and still trying every way to not pay when a person does fall sick charging insane amounts of money in fees from students, selling textbooks for hundreds of dollars, putting them in debt for life - all with not even a guarantee of half decent job when they finish their course making sure workers get slightly less h…

You'll notice that every bit of exploitation you mention is enabled by governments.

Imagine how cheap sending email as a prisoner would be if governments didn't create artificial monopolies either by crony selection or ridiculous barriers to entry. Hint, it would be about as cheap as it is for everyone else.

Re: How Companies Make Millions Charging Prisoners to Send an Email

#78

Post by trumped » Sun, Aug 05, 2018, 12:56 AM UTC

wayanon wrote: post #9

How is it moral for people to get rich from imprisonment?

private prisons... an even bigger "joke"

Re: How Companies Make Millions Charging Prisoners to Send an Email

#79

Post by iamleppert » Sun, Aug 05, 2018, 1:07 AM UTC

My aunt is in prison and I’ve had to use the JPay app to send her photos and messages.

It’s the most awful piece of garbage you’ve ever seen. It barely functions, and doesn’t even handle the aspect ratio of photos correctly, and sends a tiny barely viewable pixelated version. It frequently crashes and fails to send the message although it deducts a “stamp” from your account. It looks like it was hacked together by the cheapest outsource firm they could find and then never updated. There is no customer support at all.

There’s a special place reserved in hell for people who use technology in such twisted ways.

Re: How Companies Make Millions Charging Prisoners to Send an Email

#80

Post by WheelsAtLarge » Sun, Aug 05, 2018, 4:07 AM UTC

I want to be outraged by JPAY but I can't be. 47 cents per email seems like a lot but it's not. Consider a typical home situation, Spectrum charges $50 a month just to get internet service that does not include the hardware, maintenance, taxes and who knows what else. Divide service cost by .47 cents and that works out to something like 100 emails. I know for a fact that I don't send that many emails a month. So, in reality, I would be paying more than that per email. Sure, I use the internet for other purposes so I'm ok with it.

JPAY has to deal with all the fixed costs of setting up the internet connections plus ongoing maintenance. There are only a few information services that society wants prisoners to use in prison since all prisoners have been proven to be untrustworthy. Email is one of the few so JPay has to charge high rates just to get a return on their investment. I'm not crying for them since they are making a good return.

I don't like the situation but the alternative is no e-mail. It's obvious prisons don't want the responsibility of providing it and private companies want a high return for doing it.

Like it or not JPAY is providing a service that wouldn't exist otherwise. 47 cents per email is high but it's acceptable given the alternative.