You have to pick your battles. Life isn’t going to get any easier.
Ask HN: What is going on?
21–30 of 42 posts
Re: Ask HN: What is going on?
#22You can only convince people that are open to being convinced. Usually I've seen this take some sort of harsh real-world personal experience that contradicts their existing world-view. Personal example: I used to strongly defend Obamacare, and would dismiss any arguments against it as trolling. Until I had to sign up with Covered California, deal with the buggy website, wait on hold for hours, then deal with higher d…
> Then I realized the detractors had a point and basically switched sides.
Just curious: you switched sides based on buggy website and "bureaucracy"? Did the fact that ACA disallowed insurance companies from denying coverage because of pre existing conditions or gap between coverage, got rid of insane life time max limit of $1 million and brought millions of more Americans under insurance coverage mean nothing to you?
Re: Ask HN: What is going on?
#23Earlier quoted context omitted.
Isn't that the point? Removing people from social circles has been a human tactic for generations, really.
That only works when almost everyone agrees on things you want to ostracize people over. However, unfortunately there are so many idiots that this pretty much only works to divide a society into ideological camps with few negative consequences to individuals but a lot of damage for the society at large.
Sure. Personally I don't agree with attacking people, but I also don't agree with having to listen to them.
Re: Ask HN: What is going on?
#24I feel your pain but unfortunately I have no answers. There are people with these insane opinions and they are spreading.
Two decades ago a school had a live debate between a teacher and a student Holocaust denier. The teacher thoroughly demolished the students arguments which made him look like a complete fool. Today the student (Björn Björkqvist) is the leader of one of the largest Nazi groups and the teacher severely regrets ever debating with him.
Re: Ask HN: What is going on?
#25You can only convince people that are open to being convinced. Usually I've seen this take some sort of harsh real-world personal experience that contradicts their existing world-view. Personal example: I used to strongly defend Obamacare, and would dismiss any arguments against it as trolling. Until I had to sign up with Covered California, deal with the buggy website, wait on hold for hours, then deal with higher d…
> Then I realized the detractors had a point and basically switched sides. Just curious: you switched sides based on buggy website and "bureaucracy"? Did the fact that ACA disallowed insurance companies from denying coverage because of pre existing conditions or gap between coverage, got rid of insane life time max limit of $1 million and brought millions of more Americans under insurance coverage mean nothing to you…
And what good is "insurance" if you can't see your new doctor due to such bureaucracy, or keep your previous doctor as promised?
Health insurance is not same as health care. Remember that.
Re: Ask HN: What is going on?
#26Billions of people truly believe in the existence of a super-natural creature up in the sky. Some devoting time, energy and tons of money.
Not something that should surprise given the scale.
Re: Ask HN: What is going on?
#27How are you? Are you okay? Do you need someone to talk to? My email is in my profile.
I used to have this neighbour. The first time I met him, I thought he was going to become a good friend. We talked for hours and I thought this cat was alright.
The next time we talked, it turned out that he was a fucking anti-vaccer. Not a word of a lie, he said "Do you notice there are more kids with problems, you know, retards now?" He even put air quotes around 'retards'. In his cute little worldview, that's all because of vaccines. Fuck! I lost another friend.
Or, there was this dude I worked with. I thought he was just about the coolest person I'd ever met. He was so smart, he had amazing taste in music, he had a great sense of humour and he even liked soccer. I thought I'd made a friend for life.
It turns out that he takes freedom of expression literally and doesn't believe in hate speech laws. In his mind, advocating for genocide against the poor or mentally ill is totally fine.
This might be the most real thing I will ever write, but people will disappoint you constantly. Some of the most amazing people will be nazis. Other people won't believe in the scientific method. And still others will do stupid fucking shit that will make your job suck.
Find people who you love and let them love you back. Be fiercely loyal to those people because there won't be many of them.
And, when you meet fuckstains who believe in stupid shit, you likely can't convince them. Or, you likely could though you don't want to. A vast part of their identity relies upon this stupid shit. If you pierce the veil, you'll have to put their shit back together. That's a fate worse than knowing anti-vaccers and nazis.
Re: Ask HN: What is going on?
#28>Is there a way to convince and persuade without alienating people? In my opinion? No. Shame, humiliation, and ostracizing are the way to go. If they refuse to think dynamically or critically, they need to feel rejected from functioning society. In civil society, you follow certain normative rules and laws. If you don't, you get ejected on way or another. This is good. Insanity transfer theory: (I made it up, could b…
Get the fuck out of here you uncivil, disruptive, completely wrong prick. Nobody fucking likes you, and until you're willing to comport yourself to civil society, kindly fuck off. See, doesn't feel very good, does it?
It doesn't seem like you're here to comment civilly and substantively, even after we've asked many times, so we've banned the account.
Re: Ask HN: What is going on?
#29Billions of people truly believe in the existence of a super-natural creature up in the sky. Some devoting time, energy and tons of money. Not something that should surprise given the scale.
This is a facile and offensive argument. Non-atheists are not the intellectual equivalent of Holocaust deniers or antivax advocates. All you're doing is inviting religious flamewar, which is not allowed on HN.
Re: Ask HN: What is going on?
#30Once you start lying, you lose your credibility -- even when you are telling the truth. More and more people are coming to believe society -- "the state", doctors, bankers, etc. -- has lied to them. The thing is, they're not wrong. Just look at the "outsourcing/off-shoring's good; we'll all become managers/bankers/lawyers/professionals" statements from the '90's. (Here in the U.S.) Rescinding Glass-Steagall. (And don…
The Holocaust deniers and antivaxers are, in fact, wrong. There's no "may" about it.