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Developments in tech in Toronto over the past seven years

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Re: Developments in tech in Toronto over the past seven years

#71

Post by sonnyblarney »

moltar wrote: post #66
Apocryphon wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about Montréal?

I’ll do the spin: - Healthiest city in North America [1] - Montréal posts best job growth in 2017 among top 20 largest urban centers in Canada and the U.S. [2] - Lowest unemployment rate since 2001 [3] - Montréal is 2nd global artificial intelligence hub [4] [1] https://www.spotahome.com/healthiest-cities-world [2] http://www.montrealinternational.com/en/blog/montreal-posts-... [3] https://montrealgazette.com/busines…

I'm a Montreal, this is pure spin.

The 'low unemployment' bit is funny considering how many underemployed, homeless and in betweens there are. I don't remotely buy it. The economy in Montreal is reasonable but soft. I guess compared to itself in 2001?

The AI hub is correct for now, that might change.

Re: Developments in tech in Toronto over the past seven years

#72

Post by dear »

lucidone wrote: post #68

Why live in Toronto for a 90k CAD salary when I can live close to Waterloo and get an 80k CAD salary? Perhaps I'm very lucky, but it goes a lot farther.

You can live in Waterloo and work in Toronto. Commute by greyhound daily. I know people who do that for years.

Re: Developments in tech in Toronto over the past seven years

#73

Post by mdtusz »

raverbashing wrote: post #55
jbarham wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know French and love winter?

You can do without French but then again if you're living there make an effort Winter is worse than Toronto but not by much (and Ottawa winters seem worse than both, to the point a whole canal freezes)

Montreal winters are far worse than Ottawa, if only due to the laissez faire attitude taken towards infrastructure and maintenance of the city and buildings - not just government, but landlords as well.

Re: Developments in tech in Toronto over the past seven years

#74

Post by microcolonel »

bungie4 wrote: post #69

I'm from Toronto. Congrats to Toronto for its accomplishments. It should be realized that their is a great standard of living available outside of major tech centers all across the country(s). The opportunity is different, but the jobs do exist. I'd argue that their is far more opportunity outside of tech centers than within. A tech center addresses the issue of distribution. More specifically, of concentration. Havi…

As a Canadian-U.S. dual citizen who has spent my whole life in Canada, and most of it in Toronto, I honestly can't justify settling down in Ontario. The taxes are high and complicated, the services are subpar (and I don't use most of them), and Canada largely lacks the civil rights stability enjoyed in the U.S. under the Constitution (as currently amended and interpreted), particularly regarding freedom of speech and the bounds of unlawful search.

Re: Developments in tech in Toronto over the past seven years

#75

Post by davidy123 »

sonnyblarney wrote: post #71
moltar wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ll do the spin: - Healthiest city in North America [1] - Montréal posts best job growth in 2017 among top 20 largest urban centers in Canada and the U.S. [2] - Lowest unemployment rate since 2001 [3] - Montréal is 2nd global artificial intelligence hub [4] [1] https://www.spotahome.com/healthiest-cities-world [2] http://www.montrealinternational.com/en/blog/montreal-posts-... [3] https://montrealgazette.com/busines…

I'm a Montreal, this is pure spin. The 'low unemployment' bit is funny considering how many underemployed, homeless and in betweens there are. I don't remotely buy it. The economy in Montreal is reasonable but soft. I guess compared to itself in 2001? The AI hub is correct for now, that might change.

Can you quote any hard references, like the post you're replying to? Using your anecdotal method, I can say Montreal has a culture that doesn't expect everyone to simply be job focused, which you may interpret in your own way, but there is a lot of support for low key lifestyles (low cost childcare, co-op ateliers in every neighbourhood, etc) and the cost of living is quite low. Regardless, the economy is doing well, unemployment is low and the homeless population is average for Canada. Large parts of Montreal may be inscrutable to people who don't speak french well (like me) but it's still a great place to live, IMO.

Re: Developments in tech in Toronto over the past seven years

#77

Post by ccccccccccccc »

jgh wrote: post #54
adriand wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These conversations, which appear every time a post appears on HN that talks about what a great place Toronto is (along with many other places in Canada), make me sad. There is so much more to life than money.

Sure but Toronto is expensive and they pay isn't very good considering. If it were people lamenting only being paid $300k instead of $400k then we could be like "it's just money!" but I heard when I was there a few months back CAD$120k is pretty typical for a senior dev, which is roughly $90k USD, and the housing and whatnot isn't all that much cheaper than in big US cities.

There is definitely room for improvement among pay in Canada, but it really is an exceptionalist view to base the pay in USD. Especially so because I always see people convert salary in CAD to USD, then not convert the cost of goods and living to USD as well. There are also certain nuances living in Canada that decrease your expenses compared to the US such as decent public transit (unheard of in the west coast), decent healthcare of which health benefits from the company then boost the healthcare quality way higher than what I was able to find in America, and a much more collectivist culture than America which, in my opinion, is the biggest draw to living in Canada.

On the other hand, there are expenses that are higher! Taxes are higher for one as well as the cost of goods such as groceries. Although, the groceries case doesn't really hold because I find that groceries in SV or Seattle to be higher than where I am now in Canada.

The main point I'm trying to make is that is that straight up converting salary in another country straight to USD is a bad comparison of wealth.

Re: Developments in tech in Toronto over the past seven years

#79

Post by jgh »

ccccccccccccc wrote: post #77
jgh wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure but Toronto is expensive and they pay isn't very good considering. If it were people lamenting only being paid $300k instead of $400k then we could be like "it's just money!" but I heard when I was there a few months back CAD$120k is pretty typical for a senior dev, which is roughly $90k USD, and the housing and whatnot isn't all that much cheaper than in big US cities.

There is definitely room for improvement among pay in Canada, but it really is an exceptionalist view to base the pay in USD. Especially so because I always see people convert salary in CAD to USD, then not convert the cost of goods and living to USD as well. There are also certain nuances living in Canada that decrease your expenses compared to the US such as decent public transit (unheard of in the west coast), dec…

Sure, but i found - as you mentioned - groceries, including conversion to USD, to be more expensive in Toronto than LA. Eating out was definitely cheaper. Rent, for an equivalent place in Toronto is, I think, slightly cheaper, but probably not 50% or so cheaper.

You're right that you need to convert both sides of the equation but I still think that all things considered Toronto pay is pretty poor compared to the US.

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