How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind • Hacker News Board

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#461

Post by s73v3r_ » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 4:27 PM UTC

antimatter wrote: post #430

s73v3r_ wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. That's just a completely unworkable and unreasonable demand.

Wow. So asking someone for a bit of self control and being a responsible adult is now considered an unreasonable request. Because it’s so difficult to at least not have unprotected sex when you know you’re not in a position to support a child. We are truly lost as a society.

Saying that someone should lose all support, as the person I was responding to suggested, just for doing one of the normal human acts is entirely unreasonable.

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#462

Post by PebblesRox » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 4:46 PM UTC

epicureanideal wrote: post #415

soperj wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

no but i'll absolutely complain about the way the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation has changed the school system in the US.

I'm not familiar with their influence, but I'd love to learn about it! Please link me to more details.

Here’s one overview: http://www.latimes.com/opinion/editorials/la-ed-gates-educat...

Common Core specific: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/how-bill-gates-pulle...

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#463

Post by textor » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 5:58 PM UTC

mercutio2 wrote: post #408

textor wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what it's worth, children from at-risk families achieve better education when the father ends up incarcerated. So we can absolutely make a case for "ripping families apart" and against supporting "families as they are". > My findings suggest that on average, parents who are on the margin of incarceration are likely to reduce the amount of schooling their child attains if they instead remain in the household. This…

You summarized the paper as, “children from at-risk families achieve better education when the father ends up incarcerated.” The one study you’re citing here might suggest your summary statement if “parents on the margin of incarceration” was equivalent to “children from at-risk families”. But those are very different concepts. You can have an at risk family just by being low-income. Certainly many low-income familie…

> those are very different concepts

They are overlapping. Moreover, "parents on the margin of incarceration" are an extremely significant group of parents for whom the discussion of "supporting families as is" vs. "ripping apart" is meaningful at all. For most poor families it's irrelevant as there's no grounds for dissolution.

I believe you can't deny that it's much more common and publicly acceptable to claim that such a criminal parent should be shown leniency when possible, because having no parent at all is horrible. Yet we have evidence to the contrary.

I concede that this may be inapplicable for some other cases (or at least that we have no proof that it would be applicable yet). However, I personally think that those "at risk families" where parents create an atmosphere that's detrimental for stydying (by being aggressive, anti-intellectual etc.) may well be worse than outright criminal ones, and I believe it'd be proven in due time.

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#464

Post by textor » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 8:14 PM UTC

gizmo686 wrote: post #428

wjnqx wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we can absolutely make a case for "ripping families apart" I don't see how that isn't a suggestion of a course of action -- one that that is a blatant misuse of a study (with small effects only measured over a small time period) toward ideological ends, i.e. supporting the seizure of children of disadvantaged parents. Moreover, I refuse to have an evidence-based discussion about whether certain people deserve human…

I am not going to enter a discussion on the merits of the underlying argument because you have already acknowledged that you have no interest in doing so. Returning to the meta discussion. Let us trace the course of the conversation in question: neuland: ...focus on building a better foster / adoption system and encouraging people to use it house9-2: wouldn't it be better to support the families as they are? help imp…

While I appreciate your even-handed and careful defense of the point I was making, it's probably necessary to note that I didn't consider the merits of adoption at all. I have no idea what sort of policy to support on this issue. Indeed, the only thing I was objecting to was the idea of the company of biological parents being preferable by default. Given the evidence, I think that options rank like this: good parents > good foster parents > single parent > no parents > violent antisocial parent(s). Maybe it's wrong, but I don't immediately see how and believe we shouldn't assume that any position pro "ripping families apart", whatever the circumstances, is indefensible. If anything, the only policy I can responsibly advocate for, and not just voice general agreement with, is more rigorous and unbiased research into life outcomes.

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#465

Post by nojvek » Fri, Aug 03, 2018, 1:54 AM UTC

naravara wrote: post #315

nojvek wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mostly this ^. As a parent you want to get to work on time. So staggering when school starts is both good for traffic and parents’ sanity.

>Mostly this ^. As a parent you want to get to work on time. So staggering when school starts is both good for traffic and parents’ sanity. Part of it is the assumption that kids can't get to school on their own. I was walking by myself to school when I was 6. And in a lot of places the built environment is such that kids really can't get to school on their own. Schools are either far away, public transit isn't possi…

I walked to school as I was growing up in Nairobi but realize that it’s not possible for my daughter.

Nairobi would probably have questionable security compared to the US, but I’m guessing we are probably judged quite harsh here in US.

There was just this article other day where a woman faced jail time or massive fines because she left her “not-so-baby” baby in the car. My dad used to leave us in the car all the time with windows open.

I can’t do any of that. Mostly because I may end up in jail. That’s the reality of US.

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#466

Post by imesh » Fri, Aug 03, 2018, 4:10 AM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #449

imesh wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not just public? It makes perfect sense.

Because it's literally the opposite meaning to most other countries.

No, it's opposite of Britain, most countries are in line with the USA in this regard, including former British Colonies like Australia. Britians history is the only reason their version sense, it's very unintuitive.

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#467

Post by soperj » Fri, Aug 03, 2018, 5:26 AM UTC

orwin wrote: post #453

soperj wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Common core and teachers wages dependent on standardized testing is nuts.

Do america's teacher wage depends on the child result to a standardized test?

in most states now yes. all because of bill gates.

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#468

Post by mercutio2 » Fri, Aug 03, 2018, 6:26 AM UTC

textor wrote: post #463

mercutio2 wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You summarized the paper as, “children from at-risk families achieve better education when the father ends up incarcerated.” The one study you’re citing here might suggest your summary statement if “parents on the margin of incarceration” was equivalent to “children from at-risk families”. But those are very different concepts. You can have an at risk family just by being low-income. Certainly many low-income familie…

> those are very different concepts They are overlapping. Moreover, "parents on the margin of incarceration" are an extremely significant group of parents for whom the discussion of "supporting families as is" vs. "ripping apart" is meaningful at all. For most poor families it's irrelevant as there's no grounds for dissolution. I believe you can't deny that it's much more common and publicly acceptable to claim that…

I think leniency for violent crimes or burglary is probably misguided in at risk communities.

For most non-violent crimes, this study was unconvincing (generally speaking I’d like to see incarceration alternatives for non-violent crime, why send people to crime school at tax-payer expense?).

I agree that for these groups, there’s an elevated chance that the parent is actively harming their family. I just don’t think it would be statistically justified to separate families that aren’t criminal.

And, of course, it would be deeply inhumane.

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#469

Post by cincosaltos » Fri, Aug 03, 2018, 12:46 PM UTC

Jormundir wrote: post #294

malcolmgreaves wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are responsible though. Unless you want to take away decision making power from a person. This realization does not have to incur any sort of "well you deserve this outcome and sucks to be you" sort of logic, however. It is the parent's fault for creating the situation, but society can choose to bail one out for poor decision making.

Are you trying to bury your head in the sand? My situation is probably drastically determined by some stranger 200 years ago who decided hopping in a pile of potatoes on barge headed for the US was a good idea. Thank you distant relative, that was a genius idea! The point isn't to act like people aren't responsible for their own actions, of course they are. The point is to be realistic about how much of our situation…

And that stranger 200 years ago made a decision somehow. Most african-american people in the context of this thread are descendants of enslaved individuals brought to this continent against their will.

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#470

Post by tialaramex » Fri, Aug 03, 2018, 2:20 PM UTC

imesh wrote: post #466

chrisseaton wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it's literally the opposite meaning to most other countries.

No, it's opposite of Britain, most countries are in line with the USA in this regard, including former British Colonies like Australia. Britians history is the only reason their version sense, it's very unintuitive.

Yup. Lots of things are weird in Britain because it's old, this doesn't make those things a good idea to be copied. Though it also isn't a reason to dismiss them. Old isn't necessarily bad.

Britain's railway signalling is crazy because Britain's railways pre-date railway signalling. If you build a brand new railway you definitely shouldn't repeat mistakes from the 19th century.

Britain drives on the Left. Should you drive on the left too? Only if your neighbors do.

But on the other hand Britain decided to buy up all the doctors and hospitals and stuff to give everybody healthcare and that's worked out pretty well.