France bans smartphone use in schools • Hacker News Board

Re: France bans smartphone use in schools

#151

Post by hashmush » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 9:01 PM UTC

noobermin wrote: post #90

I will be supportive of this when adults decide to ban cellphones in cars when in the driver's seat. Studies show driver's even with handless systems are significantly more likely to get into car crashes. If you support curtailing young people's cell phone use but don't support curtailing the use by adults which has proven to lead to traffic fatalities I'd have to ask you why.

It is illegal in a lot of countries if I'm reading this page correctly: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_phones_and_driving_safe...

Re: France bans smartphone use in schools

#152

Post by paulie_a » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 9:04 PM UTC

My school had a very simple method in dealing with this. The phone got confiscated until the end of the semester. That was also in the late 90s. It was effective.

Re: France bans smartphone use in schools

#153

Post by Jach » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 9:19 PM UTC

skate22 wrote: post #61

Pulcinella wrote: post #43

My thoughts as a High School teacher: I have tried[1] to allow students to have their phones, teach them to use their phones responsibly, etc. It doesn’t work. They are banned in my class. I’m just a single teacher with basically no budget. I can’t compete with giant corporations that spend millions on design, UX, UI, etc. [1] Also, technically trying to teach kids to use their phones responsibly (or even generically…

In college if i was goofing off on my phone during lecture I would likely pay for it on an exam. You could try silently writing down which days you saw a student on their phone & which days you taught the specific subject material. Then when students get it wrong on a test that you grade you can add a comment along the lines of "this was covered on day X when you were on your phone" You would also then have a nice re…

I think all of the complaints with your idea that center around "exam time" being too late would be addressed by sensible quiz policies. i.e. classes should have quizzes frequently, which individually aren't a huge component of the grade, but also which repeatedly cover past material so students can get the benefits of spaced-repetition. The notes correlating phone use can be given on the quizzes.

The only issue I have with your idea in spirit is that it does nothing for the other innocent students who get distracted by the people goofing off on their phones, but this might just be addressed by cracking down on distracting use but if people want to quietly text or browse the web under the desk for the whole period that's their business / responsibility come quiz/exam time.

Re: France bans smartphone use in schools

#154

Post by rapind » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 9:30 PM UTC

HIPisTheAnswer wrote: post #150

djaychela wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AS someone who was a teacher at A-level (age 16-18) in the UK for 17 years until last year.... I think you may be right in the best case scenario, but my experience is that the number of pupils who use smartphones (or the wider internet) as such is vanishingly small. Most people don't have the mental discipline to use it for the amazing academic tool it could be, and the bright, shiny things of social media etc fritt…

So the smart ones have to suffer for the students that dont want to learn; so lets just force them to not use tools to learn more efficiently. Hammer the nail that sticks out. We shall all be equally ignorant. Viva el socialismo!

Is it really because of political agenda though, or rather an issue of scale?

From a scale perspective you have basically 2 choices.

1) Treat kids like adults, let them do whatever so long as it doesn't impact others around them, and if they flunk, so be it.

2) Assume kids don't know best and impose rules you can enforce at scale, with the end goal hopefully being they learn the subject.

Either option gets you boatloads of complaints and anecdotes, depending on your perspective.

If you don't want efficient but merciless scaling (perhaps it's not working?), then we should explore another (new?) approach that lives within or expands upon (good luck!) the economic constraints. Ultimately we settle on something that seems "good enough", meeting as much of 1) and 2) without going bankrupt.

Re: France bans smartphone use in schools

#155

Post by Jach » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 9:39 PM UTC

malnourish wrote: post #79

andai wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Re: sugar in schools: I am currently trying to break a sugar addiction and having more trouble than I had coming off several types of addictive drugs.

I've always wondered about this: How much is that a problem with letting go of sugar, and how much is it finding things that don't have sugar in them?

Eggs and cheese are pretty easy to find so that can't be it. Plus if you've done a keto diet (I assume that's what is meant by getting over a "sugar addiction") for a length of time, the cravings are real, and sometimes interesting (e.g. craving things you haven't had or thought about for years even pre-diet).

I think most people who have trouble getting on and sticking with a keto diet are more addicted to easy-access food variety rather than particular foods. They'll succumb to the easy-to-order pizza delivery in larger part due to its easy-to-order and being-something-different properties rather than the craving for pizza/sugar itself being too strong. Keto is easy if you don't mind the monotony of the same easy-access food for almost every meal, or enjoy cooking enough to make a large variety of food. If you do mind, that'll probably have to go first, sugar or no sugar.

Re: France bans smartphone use in schools

#156

Post by Demoneeri » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 9:53 PM UTC

izacus wrote: post #146

Demoneeri wrote: post #143

Phones are a distraction to an institution that refuses to evolve. We don't work the same way, we don't entertain the same way but for some reasons we teach the same way as a 100 years ago...

Who is this "we"? Are you talking for all hundreds of thousands of schools of the world? All schools of France? Who are you speaking for?

I think you should read again my comment, the "we" doesn't refer to anything you mentioned.

"We" as people in developed countries who have the luxury of having kids in high school with smartphone.

Let me rephrase that.

People in developed countries don't work the same way as a 100 years ago. (farming, manufacturing, etc.)

People in developed countries don't entertain the same way s a 100 years ago. (social media, TV, etc.)

Almost everything is different. So, why are we trying to teach the same way as a 100 years ago?

Re: France bans smartphone use in schools

#157

Post by dang » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 10:11 PM UTC

Avshalom wrote: post #130

lostlogin wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We also weren't allowed to talk during lunch for half of it. You’re giving me ideas - a child who likes to chat and isn’t particularly interested in food can draw out a meal for an eternity.

God forbid you spend time with your kid.

Could you please stop posting unsubstantive comments to Hacker News? Especially ones with a personal edge.

Re: France bans smartphone use in schools

#158

Post by Bizarro » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 11:14 PM UTC

I find it amusing and not surprising that a country like France would ban it at the national level.

Re: France bans smartphone use in schools

#159

Post by tonysdg » Fri, Aug 03, 2018, 12:06 AM UTC

HIPisTheAnswer wrote: post #149

Pulcinella wrote: post #43

My thoughts as a High School teacher: I have tried[1] to allow students to have their phones, teach them to use their phones responsibly, etc. It doesn’t work. They are banned in my class. I’m just a single teacher with basically no budget. I can’t compete with giant corporations that spend millions on design, UX, UI, etc. [1] Also, technically trying to teach kids to use their phones responsibly (or even generically…

No teachers ever taught me as fast as a computer can today. State school are an anachronism.

Out of curiosity, how would you say you "learned how to learn", so to speak? Did it just come naturally to you? Was it a parent who taught you?

Re: France bans smartphone use in schools

#160

Post by DEADBEEFC0FFEE » Fri, Aug 03, 2018, 2:57 AM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #104

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not only competing with the addictive nature of smartphone apps, but competing with a child's interests too. Personal anecdote, but, going to school and learning stuff was more about discipline than enjoyment, that only came later on subjects in college I actually found interesting. But I do support that method of education, and I also support a ban on smartphones by extension.

> I also support a ban on smartphones by extension I support a ban during class. Between classes, however, it seems fine to let students co-ordinate extra-curricular activities on their phones.

Kids standing around checking phones or kids talking to each other. That the basic choice. The trade off of some small convieneice seems worth while.

If hadn't thought about it much, mobile phone didn't exist when I was at school. However I recently visited a school as a prospective parent and they had a strict no phone policy. Locker or lose it. After listening to the principle talk about the problems they had with bullying, distractions, social status, I'm supportive.

I can see that not being able to co-ordinate activities could be a non-trivial inconvenience, though.