France bans smartphone use in schools • Hacker News Board

Re: France bans smartphone use in schools

#41

Post by EliRivers » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 2:40 PM UTC

chpmrc wrote: post #31

EliRivers wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Smartphones and tablets are GREAT learning devices. My experience is certainly the opposite. I do all my best learning without smartphones and without tablets.

You prefer other devices, not everyone does. Most people nowadays own a smartphone but not a laptop. And books are arguably less engaging than apps for a generation that grew up not reading them (hard to swallow, since I'm an avid reader, but it's true).

You said they were GREAT learning devices.

I agree that some people may prefer them, but they're still awful learning devices compared to more conventional learning devices, and especially so in a classroom.

Re: France bans smartphone use in schools

#42

Post by test6554 » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 2:42 PM UTC

WorkLifeBalance wrote: post #34

sp332 wrote: post #29

There's more to life than homework, even when you're in school. If I have my work done and want to read Slashdot or Ars Technica, or if I'm between classes and want to check the news, that's really not something that should be banned at the national level.

You don't need to read the news every day, let alone every hour of the day. It's an addiction to the way news is currently produced. It's entirely reasonable to spend an evening a week reading up on tech news. It's not reasonable to have a compulsion to check the news whenever you have a down minute. I'm guilty of that myself, I'm currently writing this while a program compiles but I wouldn't wish this on a developin…

The older I get the more I realize that just because something is good for the average person doesn't mean it should be the law for everyone. There are billions of ways to go through life, and sometimes the freedom to make and learn from mistakes is just as important as a formal education.

Re: France bans smartphone use in schools

#43

Post by Pulcinella » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 2:42 PM UTC

My thoughts as a High School teacher:

I have tried[1] to allow students to have their phones, teach them to use their phones responsibly, etc. It doesn’t work. They are banned in my class.

I’m just a single teacher with basically no budget. I can’t compete with giant corporations that spend millions on design, UX, UI, etc.

[1] Also, technically trying to teach kids to use their phones responsibly (or even generically teaching them how to be responsible adults) isn’t legal state standard for any of my subjects so I could get yelled at by parents or admin for doing it and I would have no recourse. It’s unlikely to happen out, but it is something admin can use if they don’t like you and want to nail you on something.

Re: France bans smartphone use in schools

#44

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 2:43 PM UTC

chpmrc wrote: post #9

Typical prohibitionist mindset. Lots of people use X, we don't like X, we ban X instead of understanding how to properly and moderately integrate X into our lives. Smartphones and tablets are GREAT learning devices. If we keep blaming the ineptitude of teachers on devices the quality of education will never progress. EDIT: part of the education process is to teach kids how to use and not abuse these devices and when…

[deleted]

Re: France bans smartphone use in schools

#45

Post by vorpalhex » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 2:43 PM UTC

WorkLifeBalance wrote: post #34

sp332 wrote: post #29

There's more to life than homework, even when you're in school. If I have my work done and want to read Slashdot or Ars Technica, or if I'm between classes and want to check the news, that's really not something that should be banned at the national level.

You don't need to read the news every day, let alone every hour of the day. It's an addiction to the way news is currently produced. It's entirely reasonable to spend an evening a week reading up on tech news. It's not reasonable to have a compulsion to check the news whenever you have a down minute. I'm guilty of that myself, I'm currently writing this while a program compiles but I wouldn't wish this on a developin…

> You don't need to read the news every day

As someone who votes, you should read the news on a very regular basis. Ideally that means reading a variety of news sources from a variety of political leanings.

Re: France bans smartphone use in schools

#46

Post by joaomacp » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 2:44 PM UTC

modells wrote: post #35

tl;dr psa for everyone: configure your phone for grayscale, least animation, vibrate-only and turn off most notifications. Smartphones are mental cocaine. Look around a city almost anywhere and most people are hunched over, staring at glowing glass and oblivious to almost everything... so much so the Dutch are putting crosswalk lights on the ground to keep people from walking into traffic while they’re getting their…

What's the difference between that and a book? Lots of people reading books on the subway, oblivious to almost everything around them...

Re: France bans smartphone use in schools

#47

Post by vorpalhex » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 2:46 PM UTC

mercwear wrote: post #23

chpmrc wrote: post #9

Typical prohibitionist mindset. Lots of people use X, we don't like X, we ban X instead of understanding how to properly and moderately integrate X into our lives. Smartphones and tablets are GREAT learning devices. If we keep blaming the ineptitude of teachers on devices the quality of education will never progress. EDIT: part of the education process is to teach kids how to use and not abuse these devices and when…

You seem to be looking at this through the lens of best case scenario. These are kids, many if all of them are probably mid puberty. The phones are not being used to take notes. They are playing fortnight, doing whatever replaced texting at this point, and generally just ignoring the lesson.

Those kids and their newspapers! I bet all they are ever going to do is read the news and not focus on the lesson. Can't they read that muck-racking when they get home? It's going to rot their brains! Don't even get me started on that overtly sexual and disgusting ballroom dancing!

Re: France bans smartphone use in schools

#48

Post by Pulcinella » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 2:47 PM UTC

modells wrote: post #35

tl;dr psa for everyone: configure your phone for grayscale, least animation, vibrate-only and turn off most notifications. Smartphones are mental cocaine. Look around a city almost anywhere and most people are hunched over, staring at glowing glass and oblivious to almost everything... so much so the Dutch are putting crosswalk lights on the ground to keep people from walking into traffic while they’re getting their…

Yes.

This is going to be very pop-pshychology, but I feel like smartphones are almost gambling-adjacent. Flashing lights and constant, small hits of dopamine.

Re: France bans smartphone use in schools

#49

Post by EliRivers » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 2:49 PM UTC

chpmrc wrote: post #32

MaxBarraclough wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Smartphones and tablets are GREAT learning devices. {{Citation needed}} I believe studies have shown that gadgets do more harm than good in school environments. > If we keep blaming the ineptitude of teachers on devices the quality of education will never progress. Even if smartphones really are a hindrance?

Tools are never a hindrance. Their misuse is. And I don't need a citation since those are just tools for consuming content and the "learning" part depends on the content, not on the tool. Try playing Math workout and tell me if you're not learning arithmetic a lot faster than with any other traditional "exercise".

If it's about properly using the tools, then surely books win. All you have to do is use them properly.

Re: France bans smartphone use in schools

#50

Post by WorkLifeBalance » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 2:54 PM UTC

vorpalhex wrote: post #45

WorkLifeBalance wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need to read the news every day, let alone every hour of the day. It's an addiction to the way news is currently produced. It's entirely reasonable to spend an evening a week reading up on tech news. It's not reasonable to have a compulsion to check the news whenever you have a down minute. I'm guilty of that myself, I'm currently writing this while a program compiles but I wouldn't wish this on a developin…

> You don't need to read the news every day As someone who votes, you should read the news on a very regular basis. Ideally that means reading a variety of news sources from a variety of political leanings.

Children don't get the vote either.