Facebook’s New Message to WhatsApp: Make Money • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook’s New Message to WhatsApp: Make Money

#311

Post by smoovb » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 8:00 AM UTC

bodas wrote: post #174

yayana wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Honestly speaking, I actually tried to ditch whatsapp but failed. I found it hard to get people to switch to signal because there are no user visible benefits and it's a little less polished. But the first day Whatsapp puts in ads..

I doubt it, Signal is terrible. Extremely sterile user experience, almost the complete opposite of something like LINE. They need to make it more fun.

Line is clearly the most fun - making most of their money from selling virtual stickers.

Re: Facebook’s New Message to WhatsApp: Make Money

#312

Post by pmontra » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 8:01 AM UTC

_emacsomancer_ wrote: post #230

anuragbiyani wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are completely mistaken if you think adding a subscription-only would not reduce usage of WhatsApp by 10x at least. I am an Indian (WhatsApp's biggest market by far), and know for a fact that hardly 1% of people using it right now in India would be able/willing to set up a payment system AND willing to pay $1 for it (which is not as inexpensive as you think) when there are so many free alternatives. And then it i…

Then have it be regional and have European users pay 1 $/€.

You can't beat free. That would result in a huge migration to FB Messenger (does it have groups?) and Telegram (which has much better groups anyway) and others.

Re: Facebook’s New Message to WhatsApp: Make Money

#313

Post by smoovb » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 8:11 AM UTC

voltagex_ wrote: post #302

Shit, I just convinced my parents to use WhatsApp instead of SMS. Time to start looking for an alternative. What's Telegram's business model? (yes, a good UI is a requirement and no, Signal isn't there yet).

Telegram just raising $1.7B in a crypto sale, which means it is the largest chat app not owned by a major corp or government. Plus familiar interface to Whatsapp, they won't even know you switched them.

Re: Facebook’s New Message to WhatsApp: Make Money

#314

Post by FlyingSnake » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 8:13 AM UTC

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #310

mrweasel wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can't charge people even $1 for your product, then I would argue that you might as well close up now. As others pointed out, ads won't work either, because if you can't afford to pay $1 for WhatsApp, then I'm not going to be able to profit from showing you ads. Ads aren't magical things you can slap on a product to make it profitable. For ads to work you need an audience that technically could pay for you prod…

"if you can't charge people even $1 for your product...." Only folks aren't always just paying $1. He's describing folks needing to set up a freaking payment system for a small amount of money - and that some folks aren't going to be able to do that and others aren't going to be willing. That's even before you get into the actual payment of $1. And this is before even considering there are other free apps that will w…

Whatsapp already supports payments in India through UPI. Setting it up is quite trivial, and if people deem WhatsApp central to their social graph, they'll buy the app.

However India is an extremely price conscious country, and many people would jump ship if WhatApp switches to subscription only. I tend to think that people would tolerate WhatsApp ads if they get the app free.

It will be interesting to see how this will play out.

Re: Facebook’s New Message to WhatsApp: Make Money

#315

Post by pranau » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 8:14 AM UTC

Entangled wrote: post #238

Make it a money remmitance platform and allow one billion people to send a trillion dollars a year charging just one percent in fees (ten billions in revenue) while providing merchants with extra apps and features for a premium. A couple of days ago I was ordering a pizza by phone and they told me they had a whatsapp channel to take orders so I thought paying using whatsapp would be perfect. No need for annoying ads…

Actually, WhatsApp does support payments via the UPI framework in India. It hasn't caught up among businesses but it is gaining popularity among people to transfer cash from one person to another.

Re: Facebook’s New Message to WhatsApp: Make Money

#316

Post by SmellyGeekBoy » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 8:15 AM UTC

grawprog wrote: post #166

aetherson wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the app cost $1 per year subscription, most people could afford it, but many wouldn't get their shit together and actually do the payment, and then their accounts would be suspended, and the network effect would be reduced. And also, WhatsApp wouldn't be making a ton of money. Payment processors take a huge bite out of $1 payments, the service does cost money to run, and it costs more money to continue to develop.…

I personally would stop using WhatsApp if they charged a subscription for it. I don't use it to talk to a few people. It would be ridiculous to pay money to keep using it. For me at least.

I'm the complete opposite. I'd pay a lot more than $1 per year if the alternative was targeted ads.

Re: Facebook’s New Message to WhatsApp: Make Money

#317

Post by SmellyGeekBoy » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 8:19 AM UTC

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #310

mrweasel wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can't charge people even $1 for your product, then I would argue that you might as well close up now. As others pointed out, ads won't work either, because if you can't afford to pay $1 for WhatsApp, then I'm not going to be able to profit from showing you ads. Ads aren't magical things you can slap on a product to make it profitable. For ads to work you need an audience that technically could pay for you prod…

"if you can't charge people even $1 for your product...." Only folks aren't always just paying $1. He's describing folks needing to set up a freaking payment system for a small amount of money - and that some folks aren't going to be able to do that and others aren't going to be willing. That's even before you get into the actual payment of $1. And this is before even considering there are other free apps that will w…

I don't understand all this talk of "setting up a freaking payment system" like it's some huge technical hurdle? Do the vast majority of people not get WhatsApp through the Play Store / App Store? Isn't adding a debit / credit card or purchasing a topup card for these trivial?

All this is besides the fact that we're talking about making the subscription model an option in addition to the ad-supported model, not forcing a subscription on everyone. I don't think a single person in this thread has suggested that apart from the people using is as a straw man.

Re: Facebook’s New Message to WhatsApp: Make Money

#318

Post by mrweasel » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 8:20 AM UTC

FlyingSnake wrote: post #314

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"if you can't charge people even $1 for your product...." Only folks aren't always just paying $1. He's describing folks needing to set up a freaking payment system for a small amount of money - and that some folks aren't going to be able to do that and others aren't going to be willing. That's even before you get into the actual payment of $1. And this is before even considering there are other free apps that will w…

Whatsapp already supports payments in India through UPI. Setting it up is quite trivial, and if people deem WhatsApp central to their social graph, they'll buy the app. However India is an extremely price conscious country, and many people would jump ship if WhatApp switches to subscription only. I tend to think that people would tolerate WhatsApp ads if they get the app free. It will be interesting to see how this w…

If they go with ads, I'd be very interested in seeing what kind of revenue that would generate. I believe that Facebook reported around $1.30 in revenue, per user, per year in Asia in 2016.

I still think it's weird to have a product that worth so little to people that they won't pay a dollars a year, and yet it seems to essential in their everyday life.

Regardless, it won't get Facebook the billions they spend on WhatApps back.

Re: Facebook’s New Message to WhatsApp: Make Money

#319

Post by SmellyGeekBoy » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 8:21 AM UTC

kamaal wrote: post #281

owaislone wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably not representative but in my circle, 90% people did pay for whatsapp before FB bought it out. The rest either had lifetime subscription through iOS AppStore or changed their phone numbers every year just to use whatsapp. Whatsapp is the only software I've seen Indians pay for without thinking twice. 60 rupees per year is very easy to shell out especially when it replaces SMS which would cost you many times m…

Nothing can compete with 0 rupees. Also unlimited SMS are free these days.

How many rupees does the extra data for a year's worth of ads cost? Or are unlimited data plans common in India?

Re: Facebook’s New Message to WhatsApp: Make Money

#320

Post by SmellyGeekBoy » Thu, Aug 02, 2018, 8:23 AM UTC

bodas wrote: post #132

goodrubyist wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know how you can seriously argue that $1/year is "not as inexpensive as you think." Even in poor countries, that subscription fee is ridiculously low.

$1 is a meal. You can't eat Whatsapp

You can't eat a smartphone either but all of these theoretical people with zero disposable income seem to have them for some reason.