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Lubuntu is taking a new direction

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Re: Lubuntu is taking a new direction

#41

Post by devxpy »

manaskarekar wrote: post #31

I don't want to come across as ungrateful but I'm not very happy about this. I haven't looked into the reasons for this change but I'm sure there are some compelling ones to make such a big change. LXDE based Lubuntu struck the perfect balance (for me) between: - Being minimal and lightweight - but works out of the box with enough batteries included - tons of community resources due to being a ~buntu - very, very cus…

Ubuntu 10.10, huh.

I'm not old enough to have experienced that, but I can say that we have the same thing happening with 16.04

They had it almost perfect and decided to throw it all out.

History does repeat itself...

Re: Lubuntu is taking a new direction

#42

Post by Nightshaxx »

manaskarekar wrote: post #31

I don't want to come across as ungrateful but I'm not very happy about this. I haven't looked into the reasons for this change but I'm sure there are some compelling ones to make such a big change. LXDE based Lubuntu struck the perfect balance (for me) between: - Being minimal and lightweight - but works out of the box with enough batteries included - tons of community resources due to being a ~buntu - very, very cus…

I feel like what they are describing is what xubuntu already is....still I'd love to see some more power give to the DE

Re: Lubuntu is taking a new direction

#43

Post by Dylan16807 »

txcwpalpha wrote: post #11
fooker wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can stick a new GPU into a 10 year old machine and it would run modern games admirably.

This is some Ship of Theseus territory we're getting into here, but I think most people would say that if you replace the GPU in your rig, it's not the same rig.

Ship of Theseus? That's quite an exaggeration. Motherboard is often considered the core, and same motherboard and CPU is definitely the same rig. It's just an add-on card that has changed.

Re: Lubuntu is taking a new direction

#44

Post by DiabloD3 »

txcwpalpha wrote: post #11
fooker wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can stick a new GPU into a 10 year old machine and it would run modern games admirably.

This is some Ship of Theseus territory we're getting into here, but I think most people would say that if you replace the GPU in your rig, it's not the same rig.

Yup, but this is the "problem" with computing now adays.

For 90% of computers, merely putting an SSD in it (no matter how old it is, as long as it has, or can fit, at least 2GB of RAM, as to deal with piggy "modern" Electron/CEF/etc apps and similar idiocy in webapps in browsers) can make it seem sometimes a decade newer.

For those who game, more often than not, just upgrading the GPU helps.

I have a i7-4771 @ 3.9ghz /w 32GB of DDR3-2133. This is not a new system, but no one has made anything newer that really would improve actual performance for me... what holds me back is a similarly old GPU that I've finally decided to swap out with a GTX 1180 when they come out next month.

My 7970 served me for many many years and games are finally starting to punish it at 1080p. Still won't need to update my CPU, however.

Re: Lubuntu is taking a new direction

#45

Post by nine_k »

StavrosK wrote: post #37
azernik wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GGP comment seemed to mostly be caring about personal computers, in which field we do have most the computing power we will need. For those kinds of hard problems, the advances seem to be coming in massively parallel computing of the kind that is advancing (the GPGPU has transformed ML, for example).

Yes, but the amount of computation that is practical to put in a car or a phone probably isn't going to increase much.

With self-driving cars, it definitely is.

Re: Lubuntu is taking a new direction

#46

Post by peatmoss »

As an exercise, I threw OpenBSD and GNUStep on a machine the other day. I wouldn’t say GNUStep provides the best Free/Open desktop, but I want to believe that it could.

The thing is, many of the modern Linux desktops seem to be heavily wedded to a lot of dconf and systemd infrastructure. OpenBSD has managed to build analogs for enough of the heavily Linux-centric infrastructure that Gnome 3 depends on, but man it’s clear that Gnome 3 was written with Linux and only Linux in mind.

I didn’t see KDE in the OpenBSD ports when I looked, and I suspect it too is because KDE has become wedded to Linux-only services.

XFCE remains the most portable full-featured Desktop environment and runs well on OpenBSD.

But GNUStep... GNUStep is my biggest regret. GNUStep isn’t entirely comparable to XFCE, because GNUStep isn’t a desktop. It’s more like all GTK plus dconf plus all the desktop services required for interaction between GUI apps plus a uniform display layer.

In short, GNUStep is more or less like Cocoa from macOS. Add GWorkspace, and you have a solid reimplementation of macOS’s Finder.

I wish GNUStep had caught on or that someone would inject new life into it. There are apps that compile on both GNUstep and macOS. For whatever reason macOS seems to attract better desktop apps—both Free and commercial.

Had GNUStep and not KDE or Gnome become the defacto *Nix desktop, I imagine people would be writing macOS apps for free on Linux, and macOS users would be recompiling apps to run on Linux... and not just Linux, but all the platforms that GNUStep supports, like OpenBSD and Windows.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and why I thought to write this, is because GTK vs QT both feel like lower potential toolkits. And GNUStep also feels very lightweight and portable.

Re: Lubuntu is taking a new direction

#47

Post by MetaDark »

devxpy wrote: post #41
manaskarekar wrote: post #31

I don't want to come across as ungrateful but I'm not very happy about this. I haven't looked into the reasons for this change but I'm sure there are some compelling ones to make such a big change. LXDE based Lubuntu struck the perfect balance (for me) between: - Being minimal and lightweight - but works out of the box with enough batteries included - tons of community resources due to being a ~buntu - very, very cus…

Ubuntu 10.10, huh. I'm not old enough to have experienced that, but I can say that we have the same thing happening with 16.04 They had it almost perfect and decided to throw it all out. History does repeat itself...

Not old enough? Well this makes me feel old even though I'm not. I'm 22 and my first version of Ubuntu was 8.04.

Re: Lubuntu is taking a new direction

#48

Post by fooker »

EpicEng wrote: post #27
fooker wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can stick a new GPU into a 10 year old machine and it would run modern games admirably.

Obviously, but then can you honestly walk around saying you can play any game on your "10 year old machine"? 10 year old case maybe. Even then, you're going to have issues with the motherboard and probably the CPU bottlenecking you as well.

I would say adding a PCI card still makes it the same machine.

Also, issues with CPU throttling are not too bad, unless you are already pushing the limits of your GPU, which gets more and more difficult each year.

Re: Lubuntu is taking a new direction

#49

Post by 0xcde4c3db »

peatmoss wrote: post #46

As an exercise, I threw OpenBSD and GNUStep on a machine the other day. I wouldn’t say GNUStep provides the best Free/Open desktop, but I want to believe that it could. The thing is, many of the modern Linux desktops seem to be heavily wedded to a lot of dconf and systemd infrastructure. OpenBSD has managed to build analogs for enough of the heavily Linux-centric infrastructure that Gnome 3 depends on, but man it’s c…

> I didn’t see KDE in the OpenBSD ports when I looked, and I suspect it too is because KDE has become wedded to Linux-only services.

I doubt this is the issue. KDE Plasma 5 seemed okay on FreeBSD when I tried it recently, although I don't have any recent KDE+Linux experience to compare it with. More likely there just hasn't been enough developer interest to get it properly ported to OpenBSD.

Edit: To get more at your actual point, I've had similar feelings about GNUStep, but when I dug into it I felt like there was just too much of a mismatch with the rest of the FOSS GUI ecosystem. Maybe I'd be a die-hard devotee if I'd tried it back in the '90s as my first thing after fvwm-configured-to-look-like-mwm.

Re: Lubuntu is taking a new direction

#50

Post by sandra666 »

jagger27 wrote: post #33
chx wrote: post #16

One of my friends was saying how her old Mac Pro with dual X5670 CPUs was one of the fastest machines for video transcoding she ever saw. That's a little bit less than ten years old but still older than Sandy Bridge. Someone did the math and it turns out today a top consumer (not HEDT) CPU barely matches this pair of CPUs in multithread performance https://hardforum.com/threads/replacing-dual-x5670.1963388/#... Obvio…

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