Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

theintercept.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

361–370 of 436 posts

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#361

Post by c3534l »

Aunche wrote: post #199
bad_user wrote: post #133

There might be many tech companies in China, no doubt, including big names, and companies should comply with local regulations if they want to do business, however the fact that Google pulled their search engine out of China, defying their censorship attempts, is one big reason for why I respected Google, in spite of my reservations for them. So let me tell you what I think as an EU citizen that's actively concerned…

> Google is the destroyer of privacy. Google tracks their users at an unprecedented level in the whole history of humanity and if they do this, we now have concrete proof that they don't have values that are above their bottom line. Sure Google stores a lot of data about me, but why should I be worried? They haven't done anything malicious with it. All user data from Google stays on Google, so how is that any differe…

There was actually a news story like last week how Dropbox shared the personal contents of people's Dropboxes to researchers (who were researching researchers) without asking for consent to be in the study. So that's actually a really bad example. I switched to Tresorit because of it since it has end-to-end encryption. The lesson is it's not different and you shouldn't trust either party.

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#362

Post by ChuckMcM »

bad_user wrote: post #133

There might be many tech companies in China, no doubt, including big names, and companies should comply with local regulations if they want to do business, however the fact that Google pulled their search engine out of China, defying their censorship attempts, is one big reason for why I respected Google, in spite of my reservations for them. So let me tell you what I think as an EU citizen that's actively concerned…

> That Google took a stand showed they valued freedom of speech above their bottom line,...

And now their bottom line is getting closer to their top line so they re-evaluate these sorts of decisions. From an economics point of view it gives you a nice concrete way to evaluate how how much they value their principles relative to their profitability. Unfortunately you need access to some additional detail which you can't get from outside sources to put an actual number to it.

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#363

Post by brainfog »

influx wrote: post #150

Google employees practically rioted when they found out their employer was trying to get a contract with the American Government, but will just cash their RSUs when they help the Chinese government censor its citizens. Sad.

Hi, googler opposed to Maven here. I found out about this today, just like you. Fuck right off with your assumptions.

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#364

Post by friedman23 »

brainfog wrote: post #237
dragonwriter wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, people that support the PRC regime tend to also oppose the US military. How is this even the least bit surprising?

Are you seriously arguing that folks against maven were PRC shills?

You actually don't believe there is a sizable group of PRC shills/ Chinese nationalists currently working at google?

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#365

Post by knuththetruth »

joshuamorton wrote: post #263
mahranch wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> pulled their search engine out of China, defying their censorship attempts They didn't pull their search engine out of China because of censorship requests, they pulled their search engine because the government kept trying to hack them and steal their source code, which they eventually did. So Google up and left. Source: https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702303493904575167... They like to cite censorship a…

Fwiw I think you're being mildly too revisionist in the other direction. The major issue with the hacking wasn't stealing source code, but attempts to access user data. Certainly accessing source code is bad, but imo in general Google protects user data much moreso than source code. (I work at Google)

Whatever the case, as someone inside Google, I’d urge you to resist this effort like many of your colleagues did with Project Maven.

Helping the Chinese government consolidate power by censoring information and silencing dissidents (among whatever else they’ll end up doing within the context of this partnership), is a dark road to go down. It will also undoubtedly set a dangerous precedent that will be demanded by like-minded regimes outside China.

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#366

Post by throwaway7441 »

lorenzorhoades wrote: post #247
justinzollars wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These employees are heroes. If you are reading this: Thank you for standing up for Human Rights.

Why is software that can be used by the military to more effectively label drone targets a violation of human rights? Bias: I am in the Air Force.

It's arguably a violation of the human rights of the people who are being targeted. Not everyone who works at Google are American, and it's conceivable that someone contributing software to such a project could themselves become a drone target, depending on their nationality.

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#367

Post by xvector »

iamshs wrote: post #346
xvector wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Literally all of your comments in this thread are on Indians, India, or Hindus. You've commented multiple times on "the damaging impact this might have on India down the line", but pay no heed to the subject of this whole topic: the immediate damaging effects on Chinese citizens. As an Indian myself, I'm completely baffled by your tangents and you choosing to actively ignore the main issue at hand. This is not an iss…

My comments are on Indian government, and not Indians or Hindus. Where have I insinuated anything about Hindus? It is absolutely certain to hurt Indians in future, if Google goes ahead and implements it in China. This is what I am doing, bringing in another viewpoint which I didn't see being brought up beforehand. It is a valid viewpoint. Stop getting all nationalistic on me, especially when it comes to defending cen…

> It is absolutely certain to hurt Indians in future,

See, you're missing the point again. India is irrelevant to this discussion. It's tangential at best.

Let's look at an example:

mywacaday asked [1]: "Why should there be a different standard for Google and other tech companies to not expand into China"

And you responded [2]: "Because it will degrade democracy in countries like India."

No. That's not the reason. That is a completely disjointed and bizarre tangent. India is irrelevant to the real issues at hand here, but in each comment you try to find a way to shoehorn it into the discussion.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17661610

[2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17662806

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#368

Post by throwaway7441 »

mrep wrote: post #353
influx wrote: post #150

Google employees practically rioted when they found out their employer was trying to get a contract with the American Government, but will just cash their RSUs when they help the Chinese government censor its citizens. Sad.

This is a leak. It is likely most employees didn't even know about this project until it just now hit the news. We will probably know more in the coming months if/when the broader employee population finds out about it and reacts to it. Shit, I don't know about 99% of the projects my company has been working until they hit the news.

Since it only became known due to it being leaked, the news probably just hit the employees today, and they're already sharpening up their pitchforks. Their successful derailing of the US military program should give some hope. Obviously worker and owner motivation/interests at companies rarely align. At most companies, workers have zero say over what management/owners want to do, but it could be that internal organization at G is stronger than at other companies. I guess we'll see.

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#370

Post by est »

skc wrote: post #114

Why should Apple be the only ones making money hand over fist from China (and be lauded for their eye popping revenues every quarter)

FYI Google makes money in China alright. It only closed the search function, not AdWords.
Post reply on HN