Live data from Hacker News

Facebook’s New Message to WhatsApp: Make Money

wsj.com

181–190 of 392 posts

Re: Facebook’s New Message to WhatsApp: Make Money

#181
post #162
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone can't afford to pay $1 per year for something that allows them to communicate faster and cheaper then they are so fucked it's not even funny. We're talking mind-boggling levels of poverty. How are they able to even pay for a phone and mobile subscription? Where do they live? How do they eat? It sounds to me like a made-up sad story used as an excuse for rich corporations. If there are people that poor out…

Not sure where in the world you live but if the medium income for Malawi is $250 dollars and the medium income where you live is $25,000 convert 1 dollar to $100. Would you pay $100 dollars a year for whatsapp? I wouldn't. For those living in the valley making 250,000 a year that translates to $1,000 dollars. To me that sounds like flushing your money away. The best phones are under 1,000.

I get your point, but the cost of the phone and mobile data to actually use whatsapp has a lower limit as well.

Even if you use whatsapp on a $50 phone (which you use for say 5 years) with a $3/month plan (which seems incredibly cheap), you have amortised costs of $46 per year. Increasing it to $47 to get whatsapp does not seem as unreasonable as you suggest.

Malawi is also an _extremely_ poor country, for reference Bangladesh have ≈ 5% smartphone usage with a GDP of ≈ 4000 USD per capita (PPP) while the GDP of Malawi is ≈ 1000 USD (PPP) per capita.

I would argue that not paying (but having the means to actually use whatsapp!) is more of a choice, or lack of payment infrastructure, rather than not having the disposable income to spend 1 USD per year for the service.

Re: Facebook’s New Message to WhatsApp: Make Money

#182

Whatsapp had a great business model: $1 a year. With their current 1.5 billion users, that's nothing to sneeze at. It doesn't cost them $100M a month to provide the service. I wish more companies were like Craigslist - happy to make an great profit and a lasting business by providing basic information services for a reasonable price. Instead, a bunch of MBAs want to rule the world by focusing on growth at all costs,…

Glossing over the fact that they probably wouldn't have all of those 1.5 billion users if it had stayed a paid service. Even at $1, having to pay money pushes people off to other free platforms.

You, could do tiered models as well. At a billion users they were running 11 servers. Free with ads and data sharing, .25 targeted ads no data sharing, .50 geolocated ads only. $1 privacy + the standard. 1.50 premium extra storage or w/e

Re: Facebook’s New Message to WhatsApp: Make Money

#183

Whatsapp had a great business model: $1 a year. With their current 1.5 billion users, that's nothing to sneeze at. It doesn't cost them $100M a month to provide the service. I wish more companies were like Craigslist - happy to make an great profit and a lasting business by providing basic information services for a reasonable price. Instead, a bunch of MBAs want to rule the world by focusing on growth at all costs,…

Ok, I agree that some MBAs can be full of it but can we already stop this MBA hate on HN? I feel like lots of people here think that if you build something then customers will surely come. I've got a huge surprise for you. You will have to sell your product and some of the MBA's are really great at that. In B2B a single sale can make or break your company when you're low on cash. You do your job and let them do their…

Ok, I agree that some MBAs can be full of it but...[Y]ou will have to sell your product and some of the MBA's are really great at that.

Some are full of it, some can sell. What about the rest, and what are the proportions?

Re: Facebook’s New Message to WhatsApp: Make Money

#184
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know how you can seriously argue that $1/year is "not as inexpensive as you think." Even in poor countries, that subscription fee is ridiculously low.

$1 is a meal. You can't eat Whatsapp

and if you can't afford $1 / year FB doesn't give two shits about you because you have no disposable income anyway.

Re: Facebook’s New Message to WhatsApp: Make Money

#185
post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just before WhatsApp was bought by Facebook, they were asking for that $1 per year (I remember paying it) and they had 450 million users, in spite of plenty of chat alternatives being on the market ever since the 90s. I initially ignored it then switched to it after they started to do end to end encryption and encouraged all my friends to use it, instead of Facebook’s Messenger. So yes, they were already popular beca…

> Just before WhatsApp was bought by Facebook, they were asking for that $1 per year (I remember paying it) and they had 450 million users, in spite of plenty of chat alternatives being on the market ever since the 90s. How many of those users were actually paying at the time? IIRC they allowed 1 year of free use (even more depending on your country). I don't know what the churn is going to be the moment a currently…

They had something like 50 employees didn't they? Back of napkin I'd say probably around $10,000,000 for employee packages. Multiple that by 3-5x for total operating costs and I'd speculate they'd need $30-50m to break even which is about 3% of their subscribers paying $1.

Re: Facebook’s New Message to WhatsApp: Make Money

#186
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many of their current users would actually be paying $1 a year? Over the long term how many more? Most of these products want to be free. If I'm paying $1 a year to WhatsApp and see my friend using a different app without being charged for it, I feel like I'm getting screwed. I find it hard to think of WhatsApp truly being a long term product with that business model. Two, claiming encouraging more ads on your pl…

The power of mass usage comes into play here. IIRC, when WhatsApp launched, I was one of the early adopters. As it grew (and it became hugely popular in Brazil, where I lived) they switched to the $1/year model. Current users were auto-enrolled in a "free-for-life" plan. My friends who didn't have WhatApp would still sign up because everyone else was using it and, besides "$1/year? it's almost nothing".

In Argentina many cellular plans include 30 days of WhatsApp for free on pay-as-you-go plans. Even if you lapse your payment for the 30 days you still have WhatsApp texting. Interestingly audio, photos, and video don't work.

Re: Facebook’s New Message to WhatsApp: Make Money

#187
post #58

I wonder if that is why they opened up their API to Twilio. Twilio can now pay Whatsapp whatever it has to pay the carriers to send/receive SMS.

Given how little Twilio charges per messsage, this can not be a serious money maker for Whatsapp.

While the revenue from Twilio itself is insignificant at Facebook scale, it could be a sign that they will open up more to partnerships around the worlds without having to include advertising.

Re: Facebook’s New Message to WhatsApp: Make Money

#188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Glossing over the fact that they probably wouldn't have all of those 1.5 billion users if it had stayed a paid service. Even at $1, having to pay money pushes people off to other free platforms.

You, could do tiered models as well. At a billion users they were running 11 servers. Free with ads and data sharing, .25 targeted ads no data sharing, .50 geolocated ads only. $1 privacy + the standard. 1.50 premium extra storage or w/e

The jump from free to $0.25 is the biggest hurdle of all. Right now, you basically don't need a payment form connected to your account to use Whatsapp. But you do with $0.25.

The tiers you suggest don't affect any layperson (would your grandmother even know what geolocated ads are? Would she care?). If anything, it sounds alarming to a layperson to even have these options.

IMO your comment is a clear example of why technical people should not always be the product decision makers.

Re: Facebook’s New Message to WhatsApp: Make Money

#189
post #109
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, they could, as Zuck has ~ 60% of voting rights.

Zuck paid $19 billion for it and needs some form of return on that investment? You can't just lose $16,000,000,000 in personal wealth in a day and come up with a plan that maxes out at ~$1 billion a year in revenue.

Better something than nothing?

A bonus is to combat competition like Snapchat to Instagram by having a solid alternative.

Re: Facebook’s New Message to WhatsApp: Make Money

#190

Whatsapp had a great business model: $1 a year. With their current 1.5 billion users, that's nothing to sneeze at. It doesn't cost them $100M a month to provide the service. I wish more companies were like Craigslist - happy to make an great profit and a lasting business by providing basic information services for a reasonable price. Instead, a bunch of MBAs want to rule the world by focusing on growth at all costs,…

Ok, I agree that some MBAs can be full of it but can we already stop this MBA hate on HN? I feel like lots of people here think that if you build something then customers will surely come. I've got a huge surprise for you. You will have to sell your product and some of the MBA's are really great at that. In B2B a single sale can make or break your company when you're low on cash. You do your job and let them do their…

> You will have to sell your product and some of the MBA's are really great at that.

I'd bet that this is true of any degree. Not saying MBA providers don't teach useful stuff, but the degree is a terrible signal of quality--after all, it is by far the most popular graduate degree. I'd much rather work with someone who can state business options articulately and intelligently than someone with degree X; if this articulate/intelligent person happens to have an MBA that's great for them.

I don't get why MBAs get brought up at all.

Post reply on HN