Live data from Hacker News

Facebook’s New Message to WhatsApp: Make Money

wsj.com

131–140 of 392 posts

Re: Facebook’s New Message to WhatsApp: Make Money

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Phony in what way?

In the way that's not the result of a real pro-privacy strategy, but a unintended side effect of losing the voice assistant battle. Because Siri was getting behind, they now market themselves, directly or not, as privacy friendly . IMHO, they haven't yet found a way to market those vast amounts of tracking information without causing another scandal.

> Because Siri was getting behind, they now market themselves, directly or not, as privacy friendly.

I think you need to justify your statement a bit more, as right now, it amounts to baseless speculation.

Apple's entire ecosystem is designed with privacy in mind, and they've consistently doubled down on it every time. Consider the Secure Enclave - Apple would be able to profit quite a bit if they harvested their users' data, but they have long since made the choice to encrypt it with a per-device key that is effectively impossible to extract.

Combined with their spats with the government to avoid decrypting or introducing backdoors, I think you would be very hard-pressed to find a company or culture that values user privacy more than Apple.

This isn't something they've done because Siri was falling behind. This is what caused Siri to fall behind.

Re: Facebook’s New Message to WhatsApp: Make Money

#132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are completely mistaken if you think adding a subscription-only would not reduce usage of WhatsApp by 10x at least. I am an Indian (WhatsApp's biggest market by far), and know for a fact that hardly 1% of people using it right now in India would be able/willing to set up a payment system AND willing to pay $1 for it (which is not as inexpensive as you think) when there are so many free alternatives. And then it i…

I don't know how you can seriously argue that $1/year is "not as inexpensive as you think." Even in poor countries, that subscription fee is ridiculously low.

$1 is a meal. You can't eat Whatsapp

Re: Facebook’s New Message to WhatsApp: Make Money

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish I could upvote your comment more than once. We need to recognize companies like Facebook and Google for what they really are, ad companies. I fear that Microsoft might start taking a similar path with what has happened with Windows 10. I wonder if the products that Google and Facebook offer would actually be of better quality if they actually charged a certain amount to access their services. They have become…

I would like to challenge you on your belief - YouTube offers an Ad-free mode and the subscriber numbers are still considered to be abysmal [1], considering that it has 1B+ total users. What makes you think charging $5 to $10 per month would retain enough users? Moreover, Google made ~$15B in Q2 2018 in USA alone[2]. 86% came from ads, so let's assume Google made ~13B from ads in the USA in Q2-18. Even if we were to…

YouTube Red is still not available in my country. 3 years after launch, it’s only available in 17 countries.

Also YouTube has all the music that people care about and given the success of streaming services I’m going to guess that its lack of success has nothing to do with people not wanting to pay.

Re: Facebook’s New Message to WhatsApp: Make Money

#134
post #95

As long as they don't start showing ads in my contact / messages list, that's fine. As soon as that starts to happen I'm gone -- that's why I left FB Messenger. Or at least give me some way to pay to turn that off.

That is exactly what they will do. The status tab will probable show ads first, then the chats tab. Also, expect bulk messaging from business.

Re: Facebook’s New Message to WhatsApp: Make Money

#135

Whatsapp had a great business model: $1 a year. With their current 1.5 billion users, that's nothing to sneeze at. It doesn't cost them $100M a month to provide the service. I wish more companies were like Craigslist - happy to make an great profit and a lasting business by providing basic information services for a reasonable price. Instead, a bunch of MBAs want to rule the world by focusing on growth at all costs,…

Glossing over the fact that they probably wouldn't have all of those 1.5 billion users if it had stayed a paid service. Even at $1, having to pay money pushes people off to other free platforms.

Maybe not all those users but they where growing really fast despite announcing their business model loud and clear, - I'd say even to some degree because they were loud and clear about their business model: selling a great service.

Re: Facebook’s New Message to WhatsApp: Make Money

#136
post #14

Remember when WhatsApp required a subscription? One of the first changes made by Facebook after purchasing WhatsApp was to make it available for free. And now they're complaining they can't milk it enough? Oh dear. I know that a percentage of WhatsApp users would stop using the app if they started requiring a payment again –because apparently paying $1 per year for using an application on your $999 phone is outrageou…

WhatsApp provides more than $1 of value to me in a year, provided I have already decided to use it. But paying a subscription also represents a psychological commitment, a loss of choice for a year, a mental tracking cost if I should reevaluate annually, an effort cost to convincing others to use it if I want to communicate with them, and an opportunity cost. Because I'm certainly not going to pay $1 to 10 different IM apps though I may keep 10 if they were all free.

The strain of all these hidden costs is way more than $1, probably on the order of $30. So WhatsApp reaps $1.5B and dumps $45B worth of externalities on its user base. I refuse to pay.

Re: Facebook’s New Message to WhatsApp: Make Money

#137
post #87

Whatsapp had a great business model: $1 a year. With their current 1.5 billion users, that's nothing to sneeze at. It doesn't cost them $100M a month to provide the service. I wish more companies were like Craigslist - happy to make an great profit and a lasting business by providing basic information services for a reasonable price. Instead, a bunch of MBAs want to rule the world by focusing on growth at all costs,…

How many of their current users would actually be paying $1 a year? Over the long term how many more? Most of these products want to be free. If I'm paying $1 a year to WhatsApp and see my friend using a different app without being charged for it, I feel like I'm getting screwed. I find it hard to think of WhatsApp truly being a long term product with that business model. Two, claiming encouraging more ads on your pl…

Hundreds of thousands of businesses that exist only thanks to FB and Instagram ads?

You should provide ample evidence for such an extraordinary claim.

Re: Facebook’s New Message to WhatsApp: Make Money

#138

Is monetizing through ads the only way to go? Is FB org trapped on its modus operandis (innovator's dilemma)? What about payments (charging a small fee for transactions) on their platform? The number of people already making business transactions on WhatsApp platform is huge, specially in Brazil [1]. A big bank in Brazil has already tried to grab this market by creating a keyboard with wire transfer integration [2].…

Let whatsapp just add payment and take a 1% fee, it's really not that hard.

Re: Facebook’s New Message to WhatsApp: Make Money

#139

Is monetizing through ads the only way to go? Is FB org trapped on its modus operandis (innovator's dilemma)? What about payments (charging a small fee for transactions) on their platform? The number of people already making business transactions on WhatsApp platform is huge, specially in Brazil [1]. A big bank in Brazil has already tried to grab this market by creating a keyboard with wire transfer integration [2].…

IIRC Facebook has been pushing WhatsApp to add adds for a while, their pseudo independence prevented it but ... yeah I think Facebook's "slap ads on it" or "sell our customers" system is their one trick.

Re: Facebook’s New Message to WhatsApp: Make Money

#140

Whatsapp had a great business model: $1 a year. With their current 1.5 billion users, that's nothing to sneeze at. It doesn't cost them $100M a month to provide the service. I wish more companies were like Craigslist - happy to make an great profit and a lasting business by providing basic information services for a reasonable price. Instead, a bunch of MBAs want to rule the world by focusing on growth at all costs,…

Ok, I agree that some MBAs can be full of it but can we already stop this MBA hate on HN? I feel like lots of people here think that if you build something then customers will surely come. I've got a huge surprise for you. You will have to sell your product and some of the MBA's are really great at that. In B2B a single sale can make or break your company when you're low on cash. You do your job and let them do their…

Thus our world races to the bottom in integrity, values and the common good. Eat or be eaten. Kill or be killed.

Those committed to non-violence do so without regard to whether they'll win or lose.

The players make the game.

Post reply on HN