How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind • Hacker News Board

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#291

Post by geezerjay » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 5:28 PM UTC

PantaloonFlames wrote: post #245

roland35 wrote: post #50

I am excited about this approach and I think LeBron's organization has put a lot of though and work with experts on this project. - This school is a true public school and not a charter school. In Ohio a lot of charter schools can have some degree of selection in their students and kick out families which don't meet the requirements which leads to more at-risk students left to the public schools. This school is makin…

> I am not trying to blame the parents in all the cases either, a lot of the time there are single parents just trying to get by and make ends meet and don't know what more they can do. If there is a household with one parent, 5+ children, and not enough beds for them, the problem has occurred long before. One cannot blame the parent for "that day", but certainly the adult bears some responsibility for creating such…

> If there is a household with one parent, 5+ children, and not enough beds for them, the problem has occurred long before.

Yes, perhaps the husband/wife that was the single/primary earner in the family happened to die and thus the family found itself in hard times.

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#292

Post by jdmichal » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 5:31 PM UTC

malcolmgreaves wrote: post #277

Jormundir wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with pinning responsibility on that parent is, the original decision that led to this situation may predate the parent. Maybe they were raised by a single mom with many siblings and not enough resources too. Maybe they live somewhere deeply conservative where contraception isn't taught about. To act like the parent is wholly responsible is unrealistic and naive.

They are responsible though. Unless you want to take away decision making power from a person. This realization does not have to incur any sort of "well you deserve this outcome and sucks to be you" sort of logic, however. It is the parent's fault for creating the situation, but society can choose to bail one out for poor decision making.

I haven't seen anyone say anything about not being responsible. I have seen people say something about not being wholly responsible.

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#293

Post by darkerside » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 5:32 PM UTC

textor wrote: post #221

yardie wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I come from one of those large, poor inner city schools. The money and after school programs absolutely help. I am a product of those after school programs. That additional money paid for musical instruments, sports, computers, and transportation. I feel personally insulted when people say we shouldn't fund these afterschool programs because they don't feel they are working.

Anecdotal experiences are near worthless when discussing policies, though. Feel insulted all you like; statistically speaking, these resources are wasted. Chances are you'd be equally well off without them.

Instead of disparaging anecdotes (which are worth something, actually), can you simply provide data that supersedes it?

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#294

Post by Jormundir » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 5:32 PM UTC

malcolmgreaves wrote: post #277

Jormundir wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with pinning responsibility on that parent is, the original decision that led to this situation may predate the parent. Maybe they were raised by a single mom with many siblings and not enough resources too. Maybe they live somewhere deeply conservative where contraception isn't taught about. To act like the parent is wholly responsible is unrealistic and naive.

They are responsible though. Unless you want to take away decision making power from a person. This realization does not have to incur any sort of "well you deserve this outcome and sucks to be you" sort of logic, however. It is the parent's fault for creating the situation, but society can choose to bail one out for poor decision making.

Are you trying to bury your head in the sand?

My situation is probably drastically determined by some stranger 200 years ago who decided hopping in a pile of potatoes on barge headed for the US was a good idea. Thank you distant relative, that was a genius idea!

The point isn't to act like people aren't responsible for their own actions, of course they are. The point is to be realistic about how much of our situations are attributable to our personal decision making. People don't exist in small vacuums where they control everything.

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#295

Post by naravara » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 5:32 PM UTC

mythrwy wrote: post #238

naravara wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'd love to see more schools move to it... 3 months off in summer seems very antiquated in hindsight. But what about those of us who need the extra hands to help with the harvest!?

Robots will soon replace the forced child labor. Oh won't somebody think of the poor displaced children?

False alarm. Turns out we've already replaced them with underpaid immigrant labor instead.

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#296

Post by dragonwriter » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 5:33 PM UTC

e40 wrote: post #96

roland35 wrote: post #50

I am excited about this approach and I think LeBron's organization has put a lot of though and work with experts on this project. - This school is a true public school and not a charter school. In Ohio a lot of charter schools can have some degree of selection in their students and kick out families which don't meet the requirements which leads to more at-risk students left to the public schools. This school is makin…

Others fall asleep immediately at school since they live with 5+ siblings and there are literally no available beds at home. I am not trying to blame the parents in all the cases either At some point, though, personal responsibility has to come into play. Having 5+ children when you have no resources... this is the true elephant in the room. It seems talking about it gets labels thrown around. I guess it's a conversa…

> Having 5+ children when you have no resources...

Isn't that surprising; globally, number of children goes down with both prosperity and, even controlling for prosperity, strength of social safety nets (a common explanation for the latter being that with no or weak public safety net, your children are your old-age social safety net.)

The US has been proudly dismantling it's social safety net since the 1990s, and it already was notoriously weak for the developed world. Simultaneously, access to birth control and abortion is also under perennial assault, and even where access is maintained, well-funded shame campaigns are directed against both.

Strangely, the people backing all of those efforts are also the ones that complain the most about poor people having too many kids. And do so under the banner of “personal responsibility”, without any hint of intentional irony.

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#297

Post by yardie » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 5:33 PM UTC

textor wrote: post #221

yardie wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I come from one of those large, poor inner city schools. The money and after school programs absolutely help. I am a product of those after school programs. That additional money paid for musical instruments, sports, computers, and transportation. I feel personally insulted when people say we shouldn't fund these afterschool programs because they don't feel they are working.

Anecdotal experiences are near worthless when discussing policies, though. Feel insulted all you like; statistically speaking, these resources are wasted. Chances are you'd be equally well off without them.

And this is where you drop in the links to prove these programs aren't working.

BTW, one data point holds more value than zero.

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#298

Post by kevin_thibedeau » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 5:34 PM UTC

mliker wrote: post #30

rory096 wrote: post #14

This "normal public school" line is bizarre to me. Yes, it's a part of the school district. But it accepts specific students and has its own expanded curriculum. It's a magnet school.

Yes but it's a magnet of underprivileged and at risk students. Not your typical magnet. Props to LeBron for starting the school.

Magnets were developed to alleviate segregation through social engineering. Underprivilege and at-risk tends to go hand in hand with these circumstances. In states where this was less of an issue they may have been adopted as a way to have an "elite" public school but that isn't their typical application.

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#299

Post by stuckinarut » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 5:35 PM UTC

masklinn wrote: post #104

sb52191 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the kids we're coming from stable, supportive home environments where learning can take place outside the classroom, you might be right. But those aren't the target students for the program; IMO the student's from rough home lives will almost assuredly benefit from this model.

> If the kids we're coming from stable, supportive home environments where learning can take place outside the classroom, you might be right. The entire point of the finnish model is that this doesn't happen, there is no homework and there is no suggestion or expectations of parental teaching. There is extensive support for both kids and their parents (including good free meals and teacher-provided tutoring), but all…

Parents don't encourage kids to read, eat better, sleep at reasonable times, etc...

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#300

Post by stuckinarut » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 5:36 PM UTC

verall wrote: post #212

e40 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Others fall asleep immediately at school since they live with 5+ siblings and there are literally no available beds at home. I am not trying to blame the parents in all the cases either At some point, though, personal responsibility has to come into play. Having 5+ children when you have no resources... this is the true elephant in the room. It seems talking about it gets labels thrown around. I guess it's a conversa…

I don't see how this is an elephant in the room or a conversation we can't have right now. Lets. What, besides providing extra resources to underpriveleged children so they are not punished for their parents mistakes, can be done? Are you suggesting we make their parents "pay" somehow? Or a program to prevent the parents from having 5+ kids when they don't have the resources?

better sex education, better access to contraceptives, better access to abortion.

You don't punish the problem away, you help people avoid it themselves.