How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind • Hacker News Board

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#171

Post by thatfrenchguy » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 4:02 PM UTC

iteabagkevin2 wrote: post #163

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This feeds into the 'if everybody can't succeed, then put up roadblocks to anybody succeeding'. Sometimes charter schools are there to do exactly what's been described there: create at least one good school. Because the public system is largely underfunded/broken. To defy this impulse because it isn't replicable, is to deny the part the govt plays in creating the broken public schools.

The United States funds public education almost more than any other country in the world per student. https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator_cmd.asp

That’s not PPP though. Does not talk about inequality of funding either (which everyone knows is a horrifying issue in the US)

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#172

Post by thatfrenchguy » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 4:03 PM UTC

zjacobi wrote: post #147

First: longer days worries me if they aren't starting later. American schools start WAY TOO EARLY and probably make children chronically tired because of this. See https://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/parenting/back-to-schoo... Second: Even if this school has good results, it seems unlikely that it will scale well, because it's relying on more money (from outside donors, etc.). You can't throw more money at a problem…

« make children chronically tired »

It’s to make you used to being overworked and have almost no vacation for the rest of your life :-)

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#173

Post by erikpukinskis » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 4:03 PM UTC

tonysdg wrote: post #145

erikpukinskis wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a fallacious appeal to authority. Credentialed economists are not the only people who can make claims about economics. If you can substantively debate her assertion then please do. Otherwise you are not contributing.

Perhaps I misunderstand what you mean, but isn't this the exact opposite of an appeal to authority? The claim is that she's not qualified because she's not a credentialed economist. (I'm not familiar enough with Ms. Warren's background to have a substantiated opinion either way, though I certainly don't doubt her intelligence.)

It’s an appeal to the authority of the economics establishment. Because Sen. Warren doesn’t teach at one of few named Economics institutions she is not allowed to speak on matters of economics.

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#174

Post by faitswulff » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 4:05 PM UTC

zjacobi wrote: post #147

First: longer days worries me if they aren't starting later. American schools start WAY TOO EARLY and probably make children chronically tired because of this. See https://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/parenting/back-to-schoo... Second: Even if this school has good results, it seems unlikely that it will scale well, because it's relying on more money (from outside donors, etc.). You can't throw more money at a problem…

> One major difference is the kids’ time in school. I Promise kids’ school days will start an hour later than their peers.

Source (linked in the OP): https://www.ohio.com/akron/news/education/i-promise-school-a...

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#175

Post by gremlinsinc » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 4:05 PM UTC

jhall1468 wrote: post #149

gremlinsinc wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They could make it self-sustaining by adding some business model to support it. As others have said, maybe buy up and renovate/rent out homes near by driving up property costs (and taxes), or 'encouraging' college alums down the road to give back from their success. Maybe the model itself proves something on a national level, and the government decides this is the 'future' and earmarks more money for schools like thi…

> As others have said, maybe buy up and renovate/rent out homes near by driving up property costs (and taxes), or 'encouraging' college alums down the road to give back from their success. Thus defeating the entire purpose of this school. Gentrifying will result in the school being surrounded by housing that the students parents can't afford.

That's why I said buy up, fix up, and rent out (at the same rent as before, but beautifying the neighborhood more) thus raising property value.

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#176

Post by rland » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 4:05 PM UTC

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #153

zjacobi wrote: post #147

First: longer days worries me if they aren't starting later. American schools start WAY TOO EARLY and probably make children chronically tired because of this. See https://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/parenting/back-to-schoo... Second: Even if this school has good results, it seems unlikely that it will scale well, because it's relying on more money (from outside donors, etc.). You can't throw more money at a problem…

This feeds into the 'if everybody can't succeed, then put up roadblocks to anybody succeeding'. Sometimes charter schools are there to do exactly what's been described there: create at least one good school. Because the public system is largely underfunded/broken. To defy this impulse because it isn't replicable, is to deny the part the govt plays in creating the broken public schools.

On the other hand, it's clear that sucking good teachers, good students, and good parents from public schools into selective charters is a form of "brain drain" that negatively impacts the performance of students at public schools.

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#177

Post by patmcc » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 4:05 PM UTC

zjacobi wrote: post #147

First: longer days worries me if they aren't starting later. American schools start WAY TOO EARLY and probably make children chronically tired because of this. See https://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/parenting/back-to-schoo... Second: Even if this school has good results, it seems unlikely that it will scale well, because it's relying on more money (from outside donors, etc.). You can't throw more money at a problem…

>>You can't throw more money at a problem, then declare you've come up with a general solution.

You can if "not enough money" was the problem in the first place. And for public schools in low income areas of America, that might end up being a big part of the problem.

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#178

Post by padobson » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 4:07 PM UTC

zjacobi wrote: post #147

First: longer days worries me if they aren't starting later. American schools start WAY TOO EARLY and probably make children chronically tired because of this. See https://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/parenting/back-to-schoo... Second: Even if this school has good results, it seems unlikely that it will scale well, because it's relying on more money (from outside donors, etc.). You can't throw more money at a problem…

Trying to replicate may be the biggest problem with education.

LeBron grew up in Akron. He knows the problems these kids are facing, and he's going out of his way to solve it specifically for them.

That kind of local leadership combined with updating the school day and curriculum for kids with specific problems that are best understood at the local level can't be replicable.

How that is applied to apportionment is an open question. Vouchers always seemed like the best solution to me, but I'm not expert on this subject.

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#179

Post by yardie » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 4:07 PM UTC

EpicEng wrote: post #151

e40 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Others fall asleep immediately at school since they live with 5+ siblings and there are literally no available beds at home. I am not trying to blame the parents in all the cases either At some point, though, personal responsibility has to come into play. Having 5+ children when you have no resources... this is the true elephant in the room. It seems talking about it gets labels thrown around. I guess it's a conversa…

You're getting downvoted, and maybe most of that is a sentiment of "we have to deal with the problem at hand", which is absolutely the only thing an outsider can do, but you're not wrong. My wife works in a low income school, largest and poorest in the area (a relatively large city.) Pumping more money in does not help. More after school problems does not help much. As far as academic achievement is concerned, these…

I come from one of those large, poor inner city schools. The money and after school programs absolutely help. I am a product of those after school programs. That additional money paid for musical instruments, sports, computers, and transportation.

I feel personally insulted when people say we shouldn't fund these afterschool programs because they don't feel they are working.

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#180

Post by maym86 » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 4:09 PM UTC

erikpukinskis wrote: post #129

byebyetech wrote: post #88

I wish Jeff Bezos can get his head out of his rocket and do something like this with his 100s of billions.

A friend of mine was ranting about how evil Bezos and Musk are. I generally don’t see those two as the worst of the worst, so I spent some time listening to her thoughts. Her basic assertion was that the simple accumulation of that much wealth is itself evil. They could do many things like build schools and since they choose not to they are evil. I mentioned to her that they can’t sell their stock without ceding cont…

The profit comes from the labour of people who work for you. Any profit you make is the difference between what their true labour is worth and what you pay them. So unless the owners are adding billions in value by themselves they are paying people less than the true value of their work.

The extent at which this happens is where some ethical issues lie. If you keep wages low while making large profit there is a point of view that you are ripping off your workers and this can be seen as unethical.

Cooperatives are designed to address this by making all workers joint owners. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooperative

There is also the argument that large corporations that legally avoid paying tax and lobby to keep the loopholes open are making money by utilising public resources and not paying for them. These public resources support their workers and help the company to succeed. Bezos for example is particularly successful at avoiding tax and lobbying to keep it that way. Despite it being legal it could be considered ethically dubious as he is not contributing back to a system that helped him succeed.