How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind • Hacker News Board

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#61

Post by acjohnson55 » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 2:23 PM UTC

mkirklions wrote: post #2

Open question that wasnt really discussed in the article- Why are charter schools demonized? My local area HATES them, and I'm not sure if its politics or worthwhile. EDIT: Why did I get 5 downvotes?

That's a tough question to answer because "charter school" doesn't have a very specific definition. It's just a publicly-funded school whose charter opts it out of some number of the regulations that apply to typical public schools in the same jurisdictions.

In some states/districts, they're basically public schools that have an external partner. I taught at such a school in Baltimore. In other places, they're more or less completely independent of the district that funds them. Anywhere on that spectrum, you can cherry-pick successes and disasters.

But certainly, they have introduced a great deal more complexity and ambiguity in the discourse of education. Much of the negativity towards charters comes from a skepticism that is difficult to fully inform. So people are forced to take the shortcut of deciding whether they are for or against "charter schools", broadly speaking. Fact is, not everyone has time to become an expert, in order to hold more nuanced opinions.

I prefer to frame the debate around the "school choice" movement, which is broader idea that districts should work more like marketplaces or laboratories for education. I'm very skeptical. For one thing, the "choice" that results isn't free and isn't equally distributed. For another, it tends to centralize the blame for poor outcomes on poor performers in the district, rather than systemic issues. Yet, most of the poor performers are the very schools that have the highest risk students, because these are the same students unlikely to have the agency and social capital to effectively exercise their choice.

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#62

Post by Retric » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 2:24 PM UTC

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #52

Retric wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the predominance of such studies in the United States does not show positive impacts on average for the charter school sector. https://www.brookings.edu/research/on-negative-effects-of-vo... Recent research on statewide voucher programs in Louisiana and Indiana has found that public school students that received vouchers to attend private schools subsequently scored lower on reading and math tests compared to similar…

And are charter schools about reading and math? Cherry picking results is easy to show whatever you like. Charter schools are about - whatever each is constituted to be about. Like you can't go to a hardware store and grab a random tool and rate it on how well it drills holes. You shouldn't rate charter schools on your favorite metric. Some are about upper-class folk raising their kids with better music and art appre…

That's not 'better results' that's different results.

It's perfectly reasonable to look at the magnet school model as a good thing. However, you now have to defend the associated sacrifices.

I personally feel K-12 is to early to specialize so improvements at the cost of general achievement is a poor use of taxpayer funds.

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#63

Post by gremlinsinc » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 2:24 PM UTC

scilro wrote: post #37

ryanx435 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

so if I'm an engaged and interested parent, and I want my child to succeed, looks like charter schools are the correct answer about where to send my kids.

Could be in many cases. But the question of "where should I send _my_ kids" should be considered separately from "how should education in this country as a whole be structured." You have to distinguish between the macro and micro. Another example is college. If my nephew asked me whether he should go to college, I'd say, definitely do that, if you can afford it. But on a macro level, college in the US has kind of bec…

I'm afraid college won't matter at all when my 1yr old graduates.

Automation will have decimated many industries, what will be left is up in the air, and when he graduates will those jobs still be there?

Unless in the future college is more of an extra-curricular boredom thing because post-scarcity society and all (wishful thinking).

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#64

Post by andrew_ » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 2:26 PM UTC

maxerickson wrote: post #48

Invictus0 wrote: post #32

I'm wondering if this school will be sustainable in the long term. Given the correlation between low-income neighborhoods and poor school performance, how is I Promise going to be supported by taxpayers? Many school districts scrounge for basic supplies; how long will they be able to keep this free bike program going?

The free bikes will surely continue as long as Lebron James maintains interest. I guess maybe they would stop it if the bikes were just ending up at a scrap yard?

The cynic in me was thinking the same thing. There's going to have to be a change of thinking with a lot of folks as well - that bike may represent $20 worth of scrap metal, $20 in a pocket now that might pay for food, necessities, habits. And that program could quickly turn dark. Anecdotally, a close friend of mine operated a pawn shop in a downtrodden area of Detroit and would frequently comment on how many brand new bikes were walked through the door, for which they paid very little.

Getting some folks to realize that it's providing freedom rather than fast cash is going to be an accomplishment. Perhaps this will even produce a positive cultural shift.

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#65

Post by mirajshah » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 2:27 PM UTC

Nokinside wrote: post #39

Elizabeth Warren pointed out that the US housing crisis was partly caused by inflated house prices in good public school districts. Middle income families were paying the education of their children in high property price. Maybe LeBron should invest into the property around the school to reap some of the benefits and use them to finance the school. Holistic property development.

Interesting! But it seems like gentrifying the area around the school is probably not in line with his vision of having at-risk children benefit from the school.

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#66

Post by jcims » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 2:27 PM UTC

thieving_magpie wrote: post #7

mkirklions wrote: post #2

Open question that wasnt really discussed in the article- Why are charter schools demonized? My local area HATES them, and I'm not sure if its politics or worthwhile. EDIT: Why did I get 5 downvotes?

Where I live they are often attended by white students to avoid public schools that have sizable black student populations. There are many benefits and drawbacks to charter schools. The conditions in my area are not universal to other parts of the country.

Demographics of charter schools vary widely by state - https://ballotpedia.org/Charter_school_demographics

There seems to be a prevailing notion that they are enclaves for scared white parents, but the reality is a bit more complex than that.

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#67

Post by maxerickson » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 2:28 PM UTC

andrew_ wrote: post #64

maxerickson wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The free bikes will surely continue as long as Lebron James maintains interest. I guess maybe they would stop it if the bikes were just ending up at a scrap yard?

The cynic in me was thinking the same thing. There's going to have to be a change of thinking with a lot of folks as well - that bike may represent $20 worth of scrap metal, $20 in a pocket now that might pay for food, necessities, habits. And that program could quickly turn dark. Anecdotally, a close friend of mine operated a pawn shop in a downtrodden area of Detroit and would frequently comment on how many brand n…

The food bank should help with that. And the other social services.

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#68

Post by masklinn » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 2:29 PM UTC

roland35 wrote: post #50

I am excited about this approach and I think LeBron's organization has put a lot of though and work with experts on this project. - This school is a true public school and not a charter school. In Ohio a lot of charter schools can have some degree of selection in their students and kick out families which don't meet the requirements which leads to more at-risk students left to the public schools. This school is makin…

> Longer school days, 3 meals, and a longer school year helps students stay focused.

The middle one is absolutely true, the other two I really doubt e.g. in Finland or Germany, schoolday starts around 9AM and ends around 2PM, yielding 3h30 to 4h studies a day accounting for breaks, 5 days/week, with little homework (maybe 5h/week total). Afternoon is usually dedicated to clubs.

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#69

Post by organsnyder » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 2:36 PM UTC

masklinn wrote: post #68

roland35 wrote: post #50

I am excited about this approach and I think LeBron's organization has put a lot of though and work with experts on this project. - This school is a true public school and not a charter school. In Ohio a lot of charter schools can have some degree of selection in their students and kick out families which don't meet the requirements which leads to more at-risk students left to the public schools. This school is makin…

> Longer school days, 3 meals, and a longer school year helps students stay focused. The middle one is absolutely true, the other two I really doubt e.g. in Finland or Germany, schoolday starts around 9AM and ends around 2PM, yielding 3h30 to 4h studies a day accounting for breaks, 5 days/week, with little homework (maybe 5h/week total). Afternoon is usually dedicated to clubs.

For kids with unstable home environments, I think it's valuable to give them more time at school. Hopefully, the extra time includes ample opportunities for arts, sports, clubs, and other "non-academic" pursuits.

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#70

Post by Nokinside » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 2:36 PM UTC

mirajshah wrote: post #65

Nokinside wrote: post #39

Elizabeth Warren pointed out that the US housing crisis was partly caused by inflated house prices in good public school districts. Middle income families were paying the education of their children in high property price. Maybe LeBron should invest into the property around the school to reap some of the benefits and use them to finance the school. Holistic property development.

Interesting! But it seems like gentrifying the area around the school is probably not in line with his vision of having at-risk children benefit from the school.

Gentrification is not something he can change and it's not going to happen overnight.

The question is who benefits.