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Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

theintercept.com

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Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#151

Post by enitihas »

chadmeister wrote: post #128
enitihas wrote: post #123

When Tim Cook backs China’s vision of an ‘open’ Internet in a Chinese forum, HN says that at least Apple is providing some service to the Chinese users, who will have worse services if apple drops out of China. Apple routinely blocks apps on the request of the Chinese government. But if Goole too decides to provides services to China, in accordance with Chinese law, the reaction is so different here. Not taking any s…

You got any links to some of those discussions with such overwhelming support for censorship on HN? Because your claim doesn't sound even remotely true from my own personal experience on here. Your response does however sound like a typrical Whataboutism comment on here.

See the top comment on this thread(and other comments too) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16414703.

I am not able to find the HN thread on Tim Cook's comments, but here is a WaPo link: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/12/04...

For some more info on apple helping censorship in China: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_of_the_iTunes_Store...

I am not saying Apple is wrong in choosing to operate in a very lucrative market, but just that other companies are no worse than Apple.

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#152

Post by bkohlmann »

I'm having a hard time understanding how Google employees will shut down "immoral" project's for the US Dept of Defense programs like "Project Maven," yet hold their tongues in building an application that limits speech, aiding a repressive regime.

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#153

Post by gt_ »

ohyes wrote: post #109
esquivalience wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a straw man which conflates Google with the regulations it is proposing to follow. Google wants to do business in China; and it does so by obeying Chinese regulations. It obeys the law. End of story. If you want to change it, lobby the PRC.

No it doesn't. The regulations in China are immoral. Obeying immoral laws is also immoral. (If the law says 'gas the [ethnic group]' it is still wrong to do it). If Google must follow immoral laws to operate in China, they should not operate in China. I don't have any pull with the PRC but I can boycott Google.

It sounds like you might be missing a few things. Private companies are, by definition, private entities responsible for prioritizing whatever and however they choose.

If you want to have input in a powerful entity, I really recommend starting a government. If you have an old one layout around, maybe dust if off and use that, but it’ll probably take some work.

I don’t know where you live, but in the US, there’s a bunch of people who are interested in reviving their government entity. They can’t do it alone, though. Here’s the website:

https://www.dsausa.org

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#154

Post by mc32 »

bkohlmann wrote: post #152

I'm having a hard time understanding how Google employees will shut down "immoral" project's for the US Dept of Defense programs like "Project Maven," yet hold their tongues in building an application that limits speech, aiding a repressive regime.

Because it was less about principle and more about politics. If let’s say Bernie had won, this would not been raised as big issue.

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#155

Post by panarky »

bkohlmann wrote: post #152

I'm having a hard time understanding how Google employees will shut down "immoral" project's for the US Dept of Defense programs like "Project Maven," yet hold their tongues in building an application that limits speech, aiding a repressive regime.

Where does the article say Google employees are holding their tongues?

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#156

Post by hartator »

bilbo0s wrote: post #140
bad_user wrote: post #133

There might be many tech companies in China, no doubt, including big names, and companies should comply with local regulations if they want to do business, however the fact that Google pulled their search engine out of China, defying their censorship attempts, is one big reason for why I respected Google, in spite of my reservations for them. So let me tell you what I think as an EU citizen that's actively concerned…

"...Google is the destroyer of privacy. Google tracks their users at an unprecedented level in the whole history of humanity..." In fairness, you never had a problem with that privacy invasion before. You still respected them in spite of the fact that they were Gestapo-like privacy invaders. As evidenced by your claim that, "...the fact that Google pulled their search engine out of China, defying their censorship att…

> Gestapo-like privacy invaders

Hum, I don’t remember Google actions has led to the slaughter of milliona of people. But, please enlight me.

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#157

Post by gt_ »

cutler wrote: post #146

Brilliant business strategy. 1. Profess "Don't Be Evil" 2. Dominate the market. 3. Be as evil as you like.

Americans call this simply “business strategy”.

The “brilliant” descriptor depends how many millions of dollars they make.

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#158

Post by Mindwipe »

panarky wrote: post #155
bkohlmann wrote: post #152

I'm having a hard time understanding how Google employees will shut down "immoral" project's for the US Dept of Defense programs like "Project Maven," yet hold their tongues in building an application that limits speech, aiding a repressive regime.

Where does the article say Google employees are holding their tongues?

Indeed, the fact that only a small amount of staff appear to have access to this project and one of them has leaked it for moral reasons suggests rather the opposite tbh.

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#159

Post by macspoofing »

mocae wrote: post #41
macspoofing wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Why should there be a different standard for Google and other tech companies to not expand into China. This exactly. I would even make a stronger case. It's not fair to expect a technology company to fight a major world economic power. This is a failure of US and EU governments. They should pressure China to liberalize their government and provide a level economic playing field (it is insane what China gets away wit…

You make it look like google would starve without China. Like they have to go there and participate. Shifting the blame for your lack of ethics onto some government is ridiculous in this context. My god...where is your shame?

>My god...where is your shame?

Do you have no sense of your own hypocrisy? I am certain you have 0 qualms in using and buying Chinese manufactured products, or buying services and products from companies that operate in China. And yet here we are with you lecturing from your soapbox on who should be or shouldn't be ashamed of their actions. Look to yourself first before moralizing at others.

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#160

Post by yoran »

panarky wrote: post #144
mywacaday wrote: post #20

Why should there be a different standard for Google and other tech companies to not expand into China. If we have a problem with how their government works policy should be applied that prevents/manages how businesses subject to our laws operate abroad. The majority of people don't really care how corporations behave. If they did Google search/gmail/maps would not be so popular. They have the right price point(0$) fo…

> Why should there be a different standard for Google Because Google "is not a conventional company" [1]. A tired trope on HN is that corporations cannot and should not be ethical entities. They are legally mandated to maximize shareholder value, and this usually requires taking actions that people find morally repugnant. This is a myth and it is horseshit. Google's mission is to "organize the world's information and…

From an outsider perspective who does not know much about what has or is going on at Google, I was always under the impression that Sergey was the main "don't be evil" guy.

Could this development be a sign that some of the power of the founders is diminishing within Google and has transferred to e.g. major shareholders?

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