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How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

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Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#31

Post by mikeash »

chrisseaton wrote: post #25
tialaramex wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[[ In the British system the thing that makes a Public School different isn't whether it's run by the state (those are State Schools) but the fact that it's open _to_ the public. Historically some schools were exclusively for (children of) members of an organisation, for example a school might be for Roman Catholics, or members of the livery company of goldsmiths, or businessmen of a certain city. The Public Schools…

The British term makes so much more sense to me. British public schools are run by members of the public for any members of the public (who can pay and pass the exam). American public schools are run by local government only for people the local government wants to admit (based on where you live etc).

American public schools are open to the entire public within the area they serve. Private schools are only open to those who can pay.

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#32

Post by Invictus0 »

I'm wondering if this school will be sustainable in the long term. Given the correlation between low-income neighborhoods and poor school performance, how is I Promise going to be supported by taxpayers? Many school districts scrounge for basic supplies; how long will they be able to keep this free bike program going?

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#33

Post by thedufer »

ryanx435 wrote: post #23
cdman wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, due to an unfair advantage. As per the text you quoted: > charter schools don't serve special needs students. More than that, charter schools bias towards engaged and interested parents. Because of policies like No Child Left Behind, it is really bad for local neighborhood schools to have all of their high performing students leave for charter schools.

so if I'm an engaged and interested parent, and I want my child to succeed, looks like charter schools are the correct answer about where to send my kids.

Not necessarily. Charter schools do much better if you measure just output, but are frequently quite average once you control for their advantageous population.

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#34

Post by Retric »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #20
jahnu wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't say that at all. "better results" should mean given a similar set of students. If you cherry-pick the inputs don't expect comparing outputs to be the same.

Given the set of high-ability students, it does seem that charter schools have better results. There's an attitude that everybody should do poorly together, and that's better than anybody succeeding. Like a bucket of crabs, each clawing at the others trying to get out and pulling them back in that keeps the poor, doing poorly. And well-meaning ivory-tower types fuel the culture with idealistic 'fairness' arguments.

The data does not back this up.

Charter schools like elite colleges gain 90% of their reputation from rejecting average or below students. There is variation among school quality adjusting for incoming students, however that exists for both normal and charter schools with many charter schools preforming worse than expected and many public schools preforming far above expectations.

However, if you want to support the value of some institution or approach it's really easy to ignore this fact and create biased research.

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#35

Post by JoeAltmaier »

Retric wrote: post #34
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the set of high-ability students, it does seem that charter schools have better results. There's an attitude that everybody should do poorly together, and that's better than anybody succeeding. Like a bucket of crabs, each clawing at the others trying to get out and pulling them back in that keeps the poor, doing poorly. And well-meaning ivory-tower types fuel the culture with idealistic 'fairness' arguments.

The data does not back this up. Charter schools like elite colleges gain 90% of their reputation from rejecting average or below students. There is variation among school quality adjusting for incoming students, however that exists for both normal and charter schools with many charter schools preforming worse than expected and many public schools preforming far above expectations. However, if you want to support the…

Citation? Its not about reputation (irrelevant) but accomplishment. And in the OP case, we're talking about one school helping one demographic. I wish this new school all the best luck in helping these kids.

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#36

Post by throwaway413 »

Invictus0 wrote: post #32

I'm wondering if this school will be sustainable in the long term. Given the correlation between low-income neighborhoods and poor school performance, how is I Promise going to be supported by taxpayers? Many school districts scrounge for basic supplies; how long will they be able to keep this free bike program going?

The whole point is to change that trend.

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#37

Post by scilro »

ryanx435 wrote: post #23
cdman wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, due to an unfair advantage. As per the text you quoted: > charter schools don't serve special needs students. More than that, charter schools bias towards engaged and interested parents. Because of policies like No Child Left Behind, it is really bad for local neighborhood schools to have all of their high performing students leave for charter schools.

so if I'm an engaged and interested parent, and I want my child to succeed, looks like charter schools are the correct answer about where to send my kids.

Could be in many cases.

But the question of "where should I send _my_ kids" should be considered separately from "how should education in this country as a whole be structured."

You have to distinguish between the macro and micro. Another example is college. If my nephew asked me whether he should go to college, I'd say, definitely do that, if you can afford it. But on a macro level, college in the US has kind of become scam and we have to do something about it.

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#39

Post by Nokinside »

Elizabeth Warren pointed out that the US housing crisis was partly caused by inflated house prices in good public school districts. Middle income families were paying the education of their children in high property price.

Maybe LeBron should invest into the property around the school to reap some of the benefits and use them to finance the school. Holistic property development.

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#40

Post by Retric »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #35
Retric wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The data does not back this up. Charter schools like elite colleges gain 90% of their reputation from rejecting average or below students. There is variation among school quality adjusting for incoming students, however that exists for both normal and charter schools with many charter schools preforming worse than expected and many public schools preforming far above expectations. However, if you want to support the…

Citation? Its not about reputation (irrelevant) but accomplishment. And in the OP case, we're talking about one school helping one demographic. I wish this new school all the best luck in helping these kids.

the predominance of such studies in the United States does not show positive impacts on average for the charter school sector. https://www.brookings.edu/research/on-negative-effects-of-vo...

Recent research on statewide voucher programs in Louisiana and Indiana has found that public school students that received vouchers to attend private schools subsequently scored lower on reading and math tests compared to similar students that remained in public schools. https://www.brookings.edu/research/on-negative-effects-of-vo...

Or do you want the actual research papers?

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