How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind • Hacker News Board

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#11

Post by r00fus » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 1:30 PM UTC

mkirklions wrote: post #2

Open question that wasnt really discussed in the article- Why are charter schools demonized? My local area HATES them, and I'm not sure if its politics or worthwhile. EDIT: Why did I get 5 downvotes?

Kids with special needs are statistically less served by charter schools - significantly.

This means a greater burden on the non charter schools with the same budget (charter school students don't pay more) - and special needs kids aren't paid by federal funds (where I live it's mostly local tax).

Also they statistically perform equally or more poorly compared to public schools.

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#12

Post by koolba » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 1:31 PM UTC

mkirklions wrote: post #2

Open question that wasnt really discussed in the article- Why are charter schools demonized? My local area HATES them, and I'm not sure if its politics or worthwhile. EDIT: Why did I get 5 downvotes?

Because it's not in the interests of the teacher's union to fracture the public school system. The larger, more faceless and immeasurable it gets, the harder it is to isolate individual teachers as the cause of children not learning on pace and then fire them.

Charter schools (usually) do not have unionized teachers that are part of the larger teacher's unions. That means they have their own standards for hiring and firing teachers that they can do in response to poor performing teachers.

The counter argument is that charter schools take money away from public school systems, further leading to their collapse as it's a vicious cycle. Parent pulls child from crappy school, school loses funding, school gets worse, more parents pull their kids, etc.

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#13

Post by ryanx435 » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 1:32 PM UTC

elsherbini wrote: post #6

mkirklions wrote: post #2

Open question that wasnt really discussed in the article- Why are charter schools demonized? My local area HATES them, and I'm not sure if its politics or worthwhile. EDIT: Why did I get 5 downvotes?

I worked for 2 years as an AmeriCorps volunteer in Atlanta Public Schools. I'll preface this by saying I don't know if I believe charter schools are bad or good, but here are some arguments against them: - Charter schools take money away from neighborhood public schools. Most schools are funded per-capita, so fewer students means less money. But many costs are fixed/discrete (e.g. school nurse costs N thousand dollar…

> Charter schools have inflated performance metrics. Often charter schools don't serve special needs students. More than that, charter schools bias towards engaged and interested parents. Because of policies like No Child Left Behind, it is really bad for local neighborhood schools to have all of their high performing students leave for charter schools.

Thats an interesting way of saying that charter schools get better results.

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#14

Post by rory096 » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 1:32 PM UTC

This "normal public school" line is bizarre to me. Yes, it's a part of the school district. But it accepts specific students and has its own expanded curriculum.

It's a magnet school.

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#15

Post by chad_strategic » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 1:34 PM UTC

It's nice to wake up and read a story about someone making a difference. Here is to a good day.

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#16

Post by akhilcacharya » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 1:35 PM UTC

thieving_magpie wrote: post #7

mkirklions wrote: post #2

Open question that wasnt really discussed in the article- Why are charter schools demonized? My local area HATES them, and I'm not sure if its politics or worthwhile. EDIT: Why did I get 5 downvotes?

Where I live they are often attended by white students to avoid public schools that have sizable black student populations. There are many benefits and drawbacks to charter schools. The conditions in my area are not universal to other parts of the country.

That’s an interesting statement. Which area is this?

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#17

Post by cdman » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 1:35 PM UTC

ryanx435 wrote: post #13

elsherbini wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked for 2 years as an AmeriCorps volunteer in Atlanta Public Schools. I'll preface this by saying I don't know if I believe charter schools are bad or good, but here are some arguments against them: - Charter schools take money away from neighborhood public schools. Most schools are funded per-capita, so fewer students means less money. But many costs are fixed/discrete (e.g. school nurse costs N thousand dollar…

> Charter schools have inflated performance metrics. Often charter schools don't serve special needs students. More than that, charter schools bias towards engaged and interested parents. Because of policies like No Child Left Behind, it is really bad for local neighborhood schools to have all of their high performing students leave for charter schools. Thats an interesting way of saying that charter schools get bett…

Yes, due to an unfair advantage. As per the text you quoted:

> charter schools don't serve special needs students. More than that, charter schools bias towards engaged and interested parents. Because of policies like No Child Left Behind, it is really bad for local neighborhood schools to have all of their high performing students leave for charter schools.

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#18

Post by jahnu » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 1:36 PM UTC

ryanx435 wrote: post #13

elsherbini wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked for 2 years as an AmeriCorps volunteer in Atlanta Public Schools. I'll preface this by saying I don't know if I believe charter schools are bad or good, but here are some arguments against them: - Charter schools take money away from neighborhood public schools. Most schools are funded per-capita, so fewer students means less money. But many costs are fixed/discrete (e.g. school nurse costs N thousand dollar…

> Charter schools have inflated performance metrics. Often charter schools don't serve special needs students. More than that, charter schools bias towards engaged and interested parents. Because of policies like No Child Left Behind, it is really bad for local neighborhood schools to have all of their high performing students leave for charter schools. Thats an interesting way of saying that charter schools get bett…

It doesn't say that at all.

"better results" should mean given a similar set of students. If you cherry-pick the inputs don't expect comparing outputs to be the same.

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#19

Post by toasterlovin » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 1:37 PM UTC

ryanx435 wrote: post #13

elsherbini wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked for 2 years as an AmeriCorps volunteer in Atlanta Public Schools. I'll preface this by saying I don't know if I believe charter schools are bad or good, but here are some arguments against them: - Charter schools take money away from neighborhood public schools. Most schools are funded per-capita, so fewer students means less money. But many costs are fixed/discrete (e.g. school nurse costs N thousand dollar…

> Charter schools have inflated performance metrics. Often charter schools don't serve special needs students. More than that, charter schools bias towards engaged and interested parents. Because of policies like No Child Left Behind, it is really bad for local neighborhood schools to have all of their high performing students leave for charter schools. Thats an interesting way of saying that charter schools get bett…

But they get better results because they get better students.

Re: How LeBron James' new public school is the first of its kind

#20

Post by JoeAltmaier » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 1:39 PM UTC

jahnu wrote: post #18

ryanx435 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Charter schools have inflated performance metrics. Often charter schools don't serve special needs students. More than that, charter schools bias towards engaged and interested parents. Because of policies like No Child Left Behind, it is really bad for local neighborhood schools to have all of their high performing students leave for charter schools. Thats an interesting way of saying that charter schools get bett…

It doesn't say that at all. "better results" should mean given a similar set of students. If you cherry-pick the inputs don't expect comparing outputs to be the same.

Given the set of high-ability students, it does seem that charter schools have better results.

There's an attitude that everybody should do poorly together, and that's better than anybody succeeding. Like a bucket of crabs, each clawing at the others trying to get out and pulling them back in that keeps the poor, doing poorly. And well-meaning ivory-tower types fuel the culture with idealistic 'fairness' arguments.