Losing Earth: The Decade We Almost Stopped Climate Change • Hacker News Board

Re: Losing Earth: The Decade We Almost Stopped Climate Change

#51

Post by majewsky » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 1:19 PM UTC

jamesblonde wrote: post #28

growlist wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't vouch for the comparison you are questioning, but did find this: 'Germany emitted more greenhouse gasses in 2016 than in the previous year, but is still seen as a positive model for the rest of the world.' https://euobserver.com/environment/137298 Best thing we could have to reduce co2 would be a massive global recession I'd say, unless that is things got so bad that we had to revert to cutting down trees to su…

Of all countries to pick on, Germany are the one doing the most to change to a carbon-free economy. Read up on the Energiewende - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energiewende_in_Germany It is govt policy to reduce Co2 emissions by 80–95% by 2050. Germany is at the top in on-shore wind, off-shore wind, and solar. If they had kept nuclear power, they could be doing even better. I am sure closing the nuclear power plants…

> It is govt policy to reduce Co2 emissions by 80–95% by 2050.

Pfft. I'm German, and follow the politics to a reasonable extent. Our government (esp. under the conservatives lead by Angela Merkel) is notorious for failing to meet their own emissions goals. You didn't mention the 2020 goals; at this point, it's pretty clear that we're going to miss them. I don't know if there are any 2030 goals, but seeing how they always tout the 2050 goals, I don't think so.

Re: Losing Earth: The Decade We Almost Stopped Climate Change

#52

Post by Balero » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 1:19 PM UTC

jamesblonde wrote: post #28

growlist wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't vouch for the comparison you are questioning, but did find this: 'Germany emitted more greenhouse gasses in 2016 than in the previous year, but is still seen as a positive model for the rest of the world.' https://euobserver.com/environment/137298 Best thing we could have to reduce co2 would be a massive global recession I'd say, unless that is things got so bad that we had to revert to cutting down trees to su…

Of all countries to pick on, Germany are the one doing the most to change to a carbon-free economy. Read up on the Energiewende - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energiewende_in_Germany It is govt policy to reduce Co2 emissions by 80–95% by 2050. Germany is at the top in on-shore wind, off-shore wind, and solar. If they had kept nuclear power, they could be doing even better. I am sure closing the nuclear power plants…

Germany is not the top in off-shore wind. The UK is[0]. They are however second. Which is pretty impressive with their lack of coast. The UK has an awful lot more shore to be off!

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offshore_wind_power

Re: Losing Earth: The Decade We Almost Stopped Climate Change

#53

Post by agumonkey » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 1:20 PM UTC

adrianN wrote: post #32

agumonkey wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about vegetal roofs ? not strong enough ? because there's a huge surface area to tap into.

Just having the biomass is nice, but the crucial step is turning it into charcoal. Roofs also don't produce a lot of biomass per area.

Ok, I get it, too little. But I heard it's also good for insulation.

Re: Losing Earth: The Decade We Almost Stopped Climate Change

#54

Post by agumonkey » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 1:20 PM UTC

cup-of-tea wrote: post #30

agumonkey wrote: post #18

Who is into low tech and (near) zero waste ? How much would you be happy to lose in today's practices ? (I'm curious about what people need/want)

People want more than they already have.

until they can't, are we that blind ?

Re: Losing Earth: The Decade We Almost Stopped Climate Change

#55

Post by seren » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 1:20 PM UTC

yesyesno wrote: post #33

Ouch. I read this and I am completely confused about what to do with the rest of the time I have left. Should I even bother with my current career in tech, or would it be better to quit it and do something that could have even a slight impact now? These articles are great, but preaching to the choir. What should any of us do? I'm seriously and sincerely asking. Are there any suggestions, from a personal stand point i…

I remember reading that blog post a few years ago :

https://jancovici.com/en/climate-change/acting-individually/...

It is relatively practical and takes into account the ratio cost or difficulty vs impact

It boils down to using less energy for transportation or consumption (food or otherwise)

Re: Losing Earth: The Decade We Almost Stopped Climate Change

#56

Post by growlist » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 1:21 PM UTC

jamesblonde wrote: post #28

growlist wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't vouch for the comparison you are questioning, but did find this: 'Germany emitted more greenhouse gasses in 2016 than in the previous year, but is still seen as a positive model for the rest of the world.' https://euobserver.com/environment/137298 Best thing we could have to reduce co2 would be a massive global recession I'd say, unless that is things got so bad that we had to revert to cutting down trees to su…

Of all countries to pick on, Germany are the one doing the most to change to a carbon-free economy. Read up on the Energiewende - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energiewende_in_Germany It is govt policy to reduce Co2 emissions by 80–95% by 2050. Germany is at the top in on-shore wind, off-shore wind, and solar. If they had kept nuclear power, they could be doing even better. I am sure closing the nuclear power plants…

Wait a sec, I quoted 'still seen as a positive role model' and yet you think I am having a pop at Germany?!

Also Germany is the largest economy in the EU, so isn't it natural to look at them first? (Which in any case was not in my search terms - this came up when I was searching EU)

Re: Losing Earth: The Decade We Almost Stopped Climate Change

#57

Post by majewsky » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 1:21 PM UTC

sremani wrote: post #29

jamesblonde wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hang on. The US pulled out the Paris accord. The US also had a huge financial crisis that caused emissions to drop. I don't think policy can take credit for the slight reductions in Co2 emissions, from ridiculously high levels.

Policy tinkering as a solution to climate problem is like EU trying to force Windows to include other browsers to dethrone IE. What actually dethroned IE was Chrome and better Firefox. Policy wonking can push you in certain direction, but they do not solve. Sometimes the bridge technologies are the ones that save from imminent doom. People demonstrating urgency with climate change, can certainly set an example by cut…

Who's to say that regulations didn't play into the demise of IE? Maybe if we hadn't had the antitrust cases in the EU (and the US!), at some point MS would've been confident enough to just make it impossible to install a different browser. Similar to how Apple requires all iOS browsers to use the Apple's engine.

Re: Losing Earth: The Decade We Almost Stopped Climate Change

#58

Post by adrianN » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 1:21 PM UTC

agumonkey wrote: post #53

adrianN wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just having the biomass is nice, but the crucial step is turning it into charcoal. Roofs also don't produce a lot of biomass per area.

Ok, I get it, too little. But I heard it's also good for insulation.

Sure go for it if you have a house. It looks really nice too. It just doesn't do too much for global warming.

Re: Losing Earth: The Decade We Almost Stopped Climate Change

#59

Post by pier25 » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 1:23 PM UTC

ForHackernews wrote: post #38

yesyesno wrote: post #33

Ouch. I read this and I am completely confused about what to do with the rest of the time I have left. Should I even bother with my current career in tech, or would it be better to quit it and do something that could have even a slight impact now? These articles are great, but preaching to the choir. What should any of us do? I'm seriously and sincerely asking. Are there any suggestions, from a personal stand point i…

If you want the honest but depressing answer: it's probably too late. Don't have kids unless you want them to have a worse life than you've had. On the plus side, the worst consequences from climate change will occur after we're dead. Just enjoy the rest of your life and try not to think about it too much. After all, that's what everyone else has been doing.

Sadly I agree.

Climate change is one of the reasons we're not having kids. In part because they would have had a very bad life, but also because it's the best for the planet.

Reducing consumption of resources is not working, so we should start thinking about controlling population growth.

Re: Losing Earth: The Decade We Almost Stopped Climate Change

#60

Post by jerf » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 1:24 PM UTC

yesyesno wrote: post #33

Ouch. I read this and I am completely confused about what to do with the rest of the time I have left. Should I even bother with my current career in tech, or would it be better to quit it and do something that could have even a slight impact now? These articles are great, but preaching to the choir. What should any of us do? I'm seriously and sincerely asking. Are there any suggestions, from a personal stand point i…

"I read this and I am completely confused about what to do with the rest of the time I have left."

It is a grave life error to assign excessive likelihood to the doomsayers. I've been reading about inevitable doom for 25 years now. Some of what I read as a kid dated to the 60s and the guaranteed dates of inevitable doom had already passed by the time I read them in the early 90s.

Even assuming they are completely 100% right about the problems, which is frankly a big assumption, they rarely, if ever, even remotely account for the fact that people and the economy change in reaction to problems.

Also, consider the possibility that this feeling of hopelessness is something that perhaps somebody wants to instill in you. Why? Who benefits? Are their hands as clean as you suppose? Are you sure? I'm a big fan of "follow the money"; where most people fuck that up is that they only want to follow the money sometimes, when it suits them. Nope... always follow it. "Follow the money" is almost always used wrong; you don't need it to debunk the people you already don't trust, you need it to vet the people you do. Doomsaying has been exceedingly profitable over the past ~60 years. (It's been profitable even farther back than that, but mass market doomsaying really took off somewhere around then, which is where the real money is.) Do not forget to take that into account.

(Also, as my post implies, don't assume I'm speaking just to the particular doom de jour, about which you might still have emotional reactions. I'm talking about nuclear war, population bombs, a multitude of claims we're running out of some resource, trash management issues, a wide variety of eschatological claims, all sorts of things I've read in the last 30 years. You may say "But jerf, some of those are still problems and may be problems in the future" and I say, I agree. I often like to say "Stand up. Point in a random direction. You are pointing at a problem." There are always problems and always will be problems. But we're not talking about problems... we're talking about doom. The doom has not happened. I believe fully in environmental problems both in the present and the future. I do not anywhere near fully believe in inevitable doom.)