Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal • Hacker News Board

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#101

Post by gt_ » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 1:17 PM UTC

StreamBright wrote: post #83

macspoofing wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Why should there be a different standard for Google and other tech companies to not expand into China. This exactly. I would even make a stronger case. It's not fair to expect a technology company to fight a major world economic power. This is a failure of US and EU governments. They should pressure China to liberalize their government and provide a level economic playing field (it is insane what China gets away wit…

And why should they do that? What was the last time Western interventionism brought any good for the world? Who are the US and EU representing to tell other countries how to live their lives??

Right. If the US is representing anybody, it’s Google.

For the Americans who want your government to represent you, you’ve got some work to do. Most Americans I know speak of their government as though it were just some poorly run business that somebody else is responsible for. Get your own house in order before you criticize others peoples’.

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#102

Post by dartf » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 1:18 PM UTC

novaRom wrote: post #93

Search terms about human rights, democracy, religion and peaceful protests will be among the words blacklisted in the search engine app This is disgusting! I am not using Google Search anymore because of Firefox+DDG, but where are alternatives to YouTube, Gmail, Gmaps?

PeerTube as a YouTube alternative Fastmail, tutanota, protonmail, etc. as a Gmail alternative OpenStreetMap as a Google maps alternative.

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#103

Post by sykhic » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 1:18 PM UTC

StreamBright wrote: post #83

macspoofing wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Why should there be a different standard for Google and other tech companies to not expand into China. This exactly. I would even make a stronger case. It's not fair to expect a technology company to fight a major world economic power. This is a failure of US and EU governments. They should pressure China to liberalize their government and provide a level economic playing field (it is insane what China gets away wit…

And why should they do that? What was the last time Western interventionism brought any good for the world? Who are the US and EU representing to tell other countries how to live their lives??

The Korean War ended up benefitting South Korea in the sense that they didn’t up like North Korea. The free trade agreements have largely been responsible for large numbers of the world's population improving their living standard. There are other examples of intervention being good. Of course there are lots of examples of intervention being bad.

There is nothing special about Western intervention vs. intervention by other regional powers. Nations with power rarely use it for the well being of the world. But shouldn’t one strive to have governments do what you consider to be right?

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#104

Post by esquivalience » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 1:20 PM UTC

alexandercrohde wrote: post #100

mywacaday wrote: post #20

Why should there be a different standard for Google and other tech companies to not expand into China. If we have a problem with how their government works policy should be applied that prevents/manages how businesses subject to our laws operate abroad. The majority of people don't really care how corporations behave. If they did Google search/gmail/maps would not be so popular. They have the right price point(0$) fo…

No. - Most people care a lot how corporations behave. Many corporations have a very, very bad reputation and it affects their business. E.G: I know more than one person who deleted their facebook. - Google got its popularity by indicating it was not a standard corporation ("Don't be evil" and acting on it). Google is free to sell that away, but if it does it loses a hard-to-quantify place in our idealistic hearts. -…

That's a straw man which conflates Google with the regulations it is proposing to follow.

Google wants to do business in China; and it does so by obeying Chinese regulations. It obeys the law. End of story.

If you want to change it, lobby the PRC.

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#105

Post by mocae » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 1:21 PM UTC

simias wrote: post #44

throw_way8882 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

eh.... I think I agree in principle with you, BUT something doesn't sit quite right. I'm currently in China (hence the throwaway account) and I think any level of collaboration with their government on restricting access to free information for the Chinese people should ABSOLUTELY BE CHALLENGED. Not doing so prolongs their government's ability to not reform vs getting caught in middle-income trap from lack of 0 to 1…

>I think any level of collaboration with their government on restricting access to free information for the Chinese people should ABSOLUTELY BE CHALLENGED I don't think that's the parent point, it's more that if you do consider that doing business with the Chinese state is unethical then it makes more sense to push for regulation rather than expect big multinational companies to Do The Right Thing. Right now it seems…

> it makes more sense to push for regulation rather than expect big multinational companies to Do The Right Thing

How does it make more sense? You can't influence foreign policy of your government and you won't find a party with such specific topics which is also powerful enough to actually accomplish something.

With a company like google you can create a shitstorm that will cost them. You can break a companies reputation with a hand full influencers those days.

PS. a company is not a robot (we'd even expect ethics from them). It consists of humans and we should expect acting ethical from a human. They don't get a license to kill the moment they enter their office.

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#106

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 1:23 PM UTC

dartf wrote: post #102

novaRom wrote: post #93

Search terms about human rights, democracy, religion and peaceful protests will be among the words blacklisted in the search engine app This is disgusting! I am not using Google Search anymore because of Firefox+DDG, but where are alternatives to YouTube, Gmail, Gmaps?

PeerTube as a YouTube alternative Fastmail, tutanota, protonmail, etc. as a Gmail alternative OpenStreetMap as a Google maps alternative.

[deleted]

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#107

Post by alexandercrohde » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 1:23 PM UTC

afroboy wrote: post #96

ainiriand wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You cannot open in NK because it has a trade block imposed by the US. Something similar was happening with Cuba or Iran. Let me tell you that abiding and legitimating freedom opressing regimes is not very american, even if it is for money.

> Let me tell you that abiding and legitimating freedom opressing regimes is not very american, even if it is for money. This is really far from the truth,Israel and Saudi arabia are example how this is bullshit.

If you have examples where America puts money before the freedom of the individual to have a political opinion, then it's those examples that need to change, not our standard of America.

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#108

Post by rdlecler1 » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 1:25 PM UTC

mywacaday wrote: post #20

Why should there be a different standard for Google and other tech companies to not expand into China. If we have a problem with how their government works policy should be applied that prevents/manages how businesses subject to our laws operate abroad. The majority of people don't really care how corporations behave. If they did Google search/gmail/maps would not be so popular. They have the right price point(0$) fo…

Wrong. If China becomes a big business unit for Google then China can use that leverage to start influencing Google’s international operations. We already see China doing this with other companies.

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#109

Post by ohyes » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 1:26 PM UTC

esquivalience wrote: post #104

alexandercrohde wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. - Most people care a lot how corporations behave. Many corporations have a very, very bad reputation and it affects their business. E.G: I know more than one person who deleted their facebook. - Google got its popularity by indicating it was not a standard corporation ("Don't be evil" and acting on it). Google is free to sell that away, but if it does it loses a hard-to-quantify place in our idealistic hearts. -…

That's a straw man which conflates Google with the regulations it is proposing to follow. Google wants to do business in China; and it does so by obeying Chinese regulations. It obeys the law. End of story. If you want to change it, lobby the PRC.

No it doesn't.

The regulations in China are immoral. Obeying immoral laws is also immoral. (If the law says 'gas the [ethnic group]' it is still wrong to do it).

If Google must follow immoral laws to operate in China, they should not operate in China.

I don't have any pull with the PRC but I can boycott Google.

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#110

Post by Erwin » Wed, Aug 01, 2018, 1:26 PM UTC

alexandercrohde wrote: post #100

mywacaday wrote: post #20

Why should there be a different standard for Google and other tech companies to not expand into China. If we have a problem with how their government works policy should be applied that prevents/manages how businesses subject to our laws operate abroad. The majority of people don't really care how corporations behave. If they did Google search/gmail/maps would not be so popular. They have the right price point(0$) fo…

No. - Most people care a lot how corporations behave. Many corporations have a very, very bad reputation and it affects their business. E.G: I know more than one person who deleted their facebook. - Google got its popularity by indicating it was not a standard corporation ("Don't be evil" and acting on it). Google is free to sell that away, but if it does it loses a hard-to-quantify place in our idealistic hearts. -…

The "do no evil" bit might have been endearing to some geeks, but Google won on search quality. I only see sporadic support for something like Duck Duck Go which markets itself as the privacy conscious alternative

In USA, they obey the copyright laws (often described as draconian, with major companies getting copyright extensions again and again, e.g. Disney) and allow DMCA to suppress this information.

In Europe, they obey the "right to be forgotten".