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Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

theintercept.com

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Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#61

Post by tssva »

mywacaday wrote: post #20

Why should there be a different standard for Google and other tech companies to not expand into China. If we have a problem with how their government works policy should be applied that prevents/manages how businesses subject to our laws operate abroad. The majority of people don't really care how corporations behave. If they did Google search/gmail/maps would not be so popular. They have the right price point(0$) fo…

Almost all countries require compliance with some level of government mandated censorship. Why is China being singled out? Many western and middle eastern countries that tech companies operate in today have severe censorship and monitoring requirements. Some of these countries with have similar or worse human rights records. You hear very little if any uproar about it.

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#62

Post by simias »

Alir3z4 wrote: post #25
macspoofing wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Why should there be a different standard for Google and other tech companies to not expand into China. This exactly. I would even make a stronger case. It's not fair to expect a technology company to fight a major world economic power. This is a failure of US and EU governments. They should pressure China to liberalize their government and provide a level economic playing field (it is insane what China gets away wit…

Neither US or EU are the world police. They have no rights and should not have any to pressure any country to push their own idea of how things should work in another country, just like how China and others don't demand such and even if they do that doesn't make it less wrong.

I think that point would have some merit if US, EU and China worked completely in isolation at every level. Let everybody sort their mess like they want. But clearly that's not the case, China's economy is very tightly linked to ours, as such the way we trade with them influences their internal politics. When a US or EU company moves production to China it's not politically neutral, this company implicitly endorses the Chinese political system. As such I don't see why we couldn't regulate these things to suit our principles and interests.

It's not about saying "stop censoring the internet or we'll nuke you", it's about saying "if you want to do business with us we demand that you meet these standards, otherwise no biggy, we'll just go elsewhere."

And China does attempt to do the same thing, for instance in many African countries. It's less obvious because they're still ramping up their diplomacy, US and EU have a huge headstart there.

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#63

Post by mywacaday »

throw_way8882 wrote: post #30
mywacaday wrote: post #20

Why should there be a different standard for Google and other tech companies to not expand into China. If we have a problem with how their government works policy should be applied that prevents/manages how businesses subject to our laws operate abroad. The majority of people don't really care how corporations behave. If they did Google search/gmail/maps would not be so popular. They have the right price point(0$) fo…

eh.... I think I agree in principle with you, BUT something doesn't sit quite right. I'm currently in China (hence the throwaway account) and I think any level of collaboration with their government on restricting access to free information for the Chinese people should ABSOLUTELY BE CHALLENGED. Not doing so prolongs their government's ability to not reform vs getting caught in middle-income trap from lack of 0 to 1…

This is the key comment for me. A person in China has an opinion that does not agree with the government and feels so threatened voicing an opinion that would't merit a second thought in the EU/US that they have to go anonymous.

How can we be comfortable with google or any company going to China and effectively saying yup, thats ok.

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#64

Post by ainiriand »

Alir3z4 wrote: post #31

Each country has its own rules and for sure any company wishing to operate there should abide. Be from North Korea or Cuba etc and then see if PayPal opens an account for you. I don't see PayPal fights for it, they simply abide the law and move on. You have a company and the gov gives you tons of regulations that most of them are unfair? Your problem, take it or leave it.

You cannot open in NK because it has a trade block imposed by the US. Something similar was happening with Cuba or Iran. Let me tell you that abiding and legitimating freedom opressing regimes is not very american, even if it is for money.

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#65

Post by ainiriand »

dosy wrote: post #18

This is so smart. I’m so happy for Alphabet. They seem to have recovered their mojo. Engagement not activism. I never understood why they held off so long but glad they finally respecting the host country and providing a service tailored to local needs rather than trying and failing to impose their perspective on a foreign nation. Happy. In other news I find it hilarious FBs license was revoked in Hangzhou just now.…

Please, keep the discussion in a respectful way. This is not Reddit.

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#66

Post by matz1 »

ainiriand wrote: post #58
matz1 wrote: post #53

Nice, hopefully this will make my trip to China less annoying.

If the joy of visiting a country like China depends on your access to the Google Search Engine you are either a Google engineer or a very sad person.

I use a lot of Google service everyday as I'm sure many people do, if i don't have to worry about having to find vpn that works than yeah it will be helpful.

I rarely need to look for those censored stuff anyway even in the US.

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#67

Post by manigandham »

Why do the 1.4 billion people living there put up with it in the first place? Why they have just made Jinping a lifetime president? Why are they fine with their own Chinese tech companies doing this already?

It would help to understand the geopolitical causes of this environment instead of the constant faux outrage over Google doing what any business does, which is provide services in accordance to the laws where they operate.

I do not want a world where a few major US tech companies become political powers. This effort should be directed towards the government forces where it matters.

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#69

Post by confeit »

econ4all wrote: post #26

There are a couple of recurring themes here: 1. the hyper-moralising over google's business decisions, they're not the only company that modifies its business to access the chinese market nor is the chinese government the only one that demands censorship. 2. google employees' attempts to sabotage the company's business prospects.

1. It is because we/I expect better from Google. Google has such a huge responsibility, being the gateway to the world's information, and we trust them with that position. For-profit and deliberate blocking access to information erodes that trust. I would not care about other companies doing this, but seeing I care about Google doing this shows me that Google has a great PR/goodwill they've build up over the years. With this move I am left wondering if that is deserved, or if it was merely manipulating me for fanboy profit.

2. I think that is because they love working there, they hold their employer to a very high standard, and they don't want to take a pay cut to work for another (perhaps US-only) company with morals more aligned to theirs.

Doing (or even thinking about) ethical business, puts you at a disadvantage over those that care more about profit and increasing their power. Losing prospective profits by doing the right thing is not a popular choice for a commercial business, so the incentives are there to just sell out your soul and go along with censorship (or spying on your users). For Facebook, this went on for years, until they found themselves in a mess. This mess was the result of 1000s of decisions made by all employees (not just upper management). I commend Google's employees for standing up for their beliefs and vision for the company. Only in a very Ayn Rand world is this sabotage. I am sure the big chief in charge of foreign markets views it as sabotage, but luckily Google is not run by only Eric Schmidt's.

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#70

Post by chillacy »

userbinator wrote: post #24
howlingfantods wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure they'll be able to overtake Baidu. Baidu's search product is terrible. The results are almost always unusable. The only times I find them useful is when it links to a quora-equivalent website where someone has asked your exact query.

The results are almost always unusable. Possibly because of the censorship? If so, Google isn't going to be much better.

Baidu doesn’t use page rank like google does, it also has a bunch of ads that look like search results
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