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Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

theintercept.com

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Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#51

Post by giantsloth »

macspoofing wrote: post #22
mywacaday wrote: post #20

Why should there be a different standard for Google and other tech companies to not expand into China. If we have a problem with how their government works policy should be applied that prevents/manages how businesses subject to our laws operate abroad. The majority of people don't really care how corporations behave. If they did Google search/gmail/maps would not be so popular. They have the right price point(0$) fo…

>Why should there be a different standard for Google and other tech companies to not expand into China. This exactly. I would even make a stronger case. It's not fair to expect a technology company to fight a major world economic power. This is a failure of US and EU governments. They should pressure China to liberalize their government and provide a level economic playing field (it is insane what China gets away wit…

You’re an immoral and evil person. Anyone who makes excuses for the powerful restricting the rights of people with limited power is a horrible human being. You should be absolutely ashamed of yourself.

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#52

Post by JumpCrisscross »

kiki_jiki wrote: post #3

I wonder if Chinese people will be able to search for Winnie the Pooh.

> I wonder if Chinese people will be able to search for Winnie the Pooh

For context, Xi Jinping's feelings get hurt when people point out that he physically resembles Winnie the Pooh [1].

[1] https://www.theverge.com/2017/7/18/15993136/winnie-the-pooh-...

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#54

Post by emiliobumachar »

Eridrus wrote: post #4

So what had fundamentally changed here? Is it just that China is a bigger market now? Did Google think they actually had enough leverage to get the Chinese to back down? Are the founders simply less idealistic than before?

Hypothesis: the rise of the right to be forgotten in Europe served as a stepping stone. Free speech absolutists within the company could not be defeated in one step, but could be defeated in two steps.

I am not saying that right to be forgotten is halfway through from free-speech absolutism to full-blown state control of information, but come on. If you ever jumped from a high place, you know that every foot of height makes a lot of difference.

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#55

Post by ckocagil »

Alir3z4 wrote: post #25
macspoofing wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Why should there be a different standard for Google and other tech companies to not expand into China. This exactly. I would even make a stronger case. It's not fair to expect a technology company to fight a major world economic power. This is a failure of US and EU governments. They should pressure China to liberalize their government and provide a level economic playing field (it is insane what China gets away wit…

Neither US or EU are the world police. They have no rights and should not have any to pressure any country to push their own idea of how things should work in another country, just like how China and others don't demand such and even if they do that doesn't make it less wrong.

The US and EU have (relatively) free markets where Chinese companies can compete. But not the other way. They can simply stop trading with China unless China opens their market as well.

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#56

Post by [deleted] »

mywacaday wrote: post #20

Why should there be a different standard for Google and other tech companies to not expand into China. If we have a problem with how their government works policy should be applied that prevents/manages how businesses subject to our laws operate abroad. The majority of people don't really care how corporations behave. If they did Google search/gmail/maps would not be so popular. They have the right price point(0$) fo…

[deleted]

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#57

Post by ForHackernews »

mywacaday wrote: post #34
ForHackernews wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you just asking why anyone should have any ethical standards at all? Presumably even you think there is some line a tech company shouldn't cross, right?

Absolutely there are lines companies should not cross but that's what we have laws and policy for. That's why we have GDPR/AML/Anti-Bribery/Anti-Corruption legislation. We all know they are wrong but we still have laws even if some of practices are accepted locally, small bribes etc. Contrived example, if a printing company wanted to expand into China they would not be allowed print anti Chinese government documents.…

So if it's not illegal, in your book, a company should just do it?

Let's say Saudi Arabia approaches Facebook and wants access to profile and location data to help round up all the gay people in the country to be executed. Maybe they even offer to pay a lot of money, so it'll be profitable.

That's fine with you? Those local laws, amirite?

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#58

Post by ainiriand »

matz1 wrote: post #53

Nice, hopefully this will make my trip to China less annoying.

If the joy of visiting a country like China depends on your access to the Google Search Engine you are either a Google engineer or a very sad person.

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#59

Post by baybal2 »

macspoofing wrote: post #22
mywacaday wrote: post #20

Why should there be a different standard for Google and other tech companies to not expand into China. If we have a problem with how their government works policy should be applied that prevents/manages how businesses subject to our laws operate abroad. The majority of people don't really care how corporations behave. If they did Google search/gmail/maps would not be so popular. They have the right price point(0$) fo…

>Why should there be a different standard for Google and other tech companies to not expand into China. This exactly. I would even make a stronger case. It's not fair to expect a technology company to fight a major world economic power. This is a failure of US and EU governments. They should pressure China to liberalize their government and provide a level economic playing field (it is insane what China gets away wit…

What people here don't understand is that the talk about censorship is of less than secondary importance there.

China's priority here is totally not to censor them, it is to conduct the "handshaking ritual" and have them becoming subject under China's "law." A "blood pack" - making them partners in crime.

The same was with Yahoo. They came to China talking only about "search," but got asked about "personal data of all China's opposition members residing in US." Not only they gave everything to China, but put extreme effort to cover their "special relationship" with China's ministry of interior.

In this light, please take a look at very, very close relationship Google tried to establish with Russian government in period of 2005-2010. We are talking about nothing less than first person accounts of people involved certifying that Google was sending all kinds of "consultants" to Russian political establishment, training them in online campaigning. Simultaneously, pages of Russian political opposition did disappear in Google's search. In light of recent events, this should be subject to much scrutiny.

P.S. : Additional comment on Google. At some moment they snapped after all. They closed their Russian development centre, and evacuated key personnel to Switzerland in unprecedented visa deal with government of Zurich.

P.P.S. : On person whom Sundar Pichay was meeting. I read name Wang Huning in the article, and instantly I felt that something "clicked." The name was familiar. Wang Huning is the man who is the real propaganda chief in the communist party. To know more of his view of USA, please read his work titled "America against America." I will not be surprised at all if he is the man entrusted with running their stratagems targeting USA.

Re: Google Plans to Launch Censored Search Engine in China, Leaked Documents Reveal

#60

Post by ForHackernews »

simias wrote: post #50
ForHackernews wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you just asking why anyone should have any ethical standards at all? Presumably even you think there is some line a tech company shouldn't cross, right?

You mean like "do no evil"? I have absolutely no faith at all that any large company can really stick to some moral compass. Eventually money corrupts all. Any individual morality and sense of responsibility gets diluted to the point where it disappears completely. I mean, let's take your reasoning to its logical conclusion: I think most would agree that not paying taxes isn't very ethical, does it mean that we shoul…

> we shouldn't have any laws and regulations and controlling bodies surrounding these topics because it's a line "a tech company shouldn't cross"?

What? No, it means that we shouldn't shrug off bad corporate behavior and say oh well, I guess tax avoidance was good for their quarterly profits.

Raising outrage is an important check on corporate behavior, even moreso in a place like HN, where employers like Google hope to recruit employees.

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