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In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party

bbc.com

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Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party

#371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Chinese had the reputation to be super reliable and men of their word, while the Japanese had the reputation to be unreliable and ready to cross you at the first opportunity. What has been the observation off late of those very same peoples? Have the perceptions markedly changed? If so, how?

I’ve lived in China for six years. The consensus among Western businesspeople is that if you have a joint venture it’s not a matter of if you’ll be screwed but when. Once you find a good contact in a company, someone who will deliver you the goods you wanted, at the time and place you wanted, in the correct quality and at the agreed price, you hold on to that relationship. Once they leave you have to go back to fine…

Taiwan was a Japanese colony for 50 years and Japan deliberately "westernized" the local political and industrial culture. Whereas elsewhere the Japanese didn't see the locals as fit for modernization and so didn't bother. The KMT were beneficiaries of this when they took over the island, even though they implemented a program of sinicization.

Lee Kuan Yew famously fashioned Singaporean culture almost out of whole cloth as he believed that without a radical transformation in the social and economic culture that Singapore would quickly disintegrate. I can't find good quotes at the moment, but he had some really harsh opinions about the local ethnic Chinese culture from which he emerged; that it was corrupt, chaotic, criminal and an existential threat to the new nation.

Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party

#372
It is not only in Brazil. There are some kind of parties that requires lots of preparation by the host and does not have a strict event that requires everyone to be there at the same time. Cocktail parties for example, or barbecues in most of the world. The author of the article is just showing 1) lack of manners with the host, 2) lack of culture by not understanding what a barbecue party is, 3) bigotry towards brazilians.

Host a feijoada in Rio and you can be sure all your friends will be there on time for the meal.

Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party

#373
post #363

Similarly to Feynman's quote on the hole dug in the road, in South Africa, it is also common to simply leave a construction site. However, the comment that I want to make relates more to how South Africans are often late and why the reasons are different to Brazillians. In South African English there exists a word "now now". This was adopted from Afrikaans, which is largely based on Dutch. The existence of this word…

> Feynman's quote on the hole dug in the road What's the quote?

Here I am quoting another comment:

' Richard Feynman on Brazil:

1. “That evening I went for a walk in town, and came upon a small crowd of people standing around a great big rectangular hole in the road—it had been “dug for sewer pipes, or something—and there, sitting exactly in the hole, was a car. It was marvelous: it fitted absolutely perfectly, with its roof level with the road. The workmen hadn’t bothered to put up any signs at the end of the day, and the guy had simply driven into it. I noticed a difference: When we’d dig a hole, there’d be all kinds of detour signs and flashing lights to protect us. There, they dig the hole, and when they’re finished for the day, they just leave.” '

Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party

#374

"My impression as to your cheap labour was soon disillusioned when I saw your people at work. No doubt they are lowly paid, but the return is equally so; to see your men at work made me feel that you are a very satisfied and easy-going race who reckon time is no object. When I spoke to some managers they informed me that it was impossible to change the habits of a national heritage." This excerpt appears in Ha-Joon C…

High-jacking top comment to note that the original headline, under which most of any of the discussion was written was:

"Why Brazilians are always late"

Always being late, and always being late to parties are too very different accusations. If you just read the new headline ("In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party") and checked comments before reading TFA, you might be confused.

Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party

#375
As a Brazilian living in the UK, I have to say that this is pure bullshit.

First of all, the author makes the (very common and disconcerting) mistake of thinking cariocas represent Brazilians in general. Cariocas have their own way of life and it's very unfortunate for our image that they are the ones most foreigners think of when they think of the stereotypical Brazilian (there isn't one).

I can't speak for the whole continental-sized country or the whole of its 200+ million population but in the south it's definitely not rude to be on time. It might not be the norm but it's absolutely acceptable. I usually try to be 10-30 minutes later than scheduled but mostly because I'm slightly socially awkward and don't like to be the first one in.

On the other hand, a few months ago I went to my (British) friend's party in London. I was a bit distressed as I was about 45 minutes late. When I rang the bell I was greeted by my friend with a warm welcome and the news that I was the first guest in.

BBC can take their preconceptions and stereotypes elsewhere. Or at least make it clear in the title that they're talking about a VERY SMALL percentage of the population of the country.

Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party

#377

Richard Feynman on Brazil: 1. “That evening I went for a walk in town, and came upon a small crowd of people standing around a great big rectangular hole in the road—it had been “dug for sewer pipes, or something—and there, sitting exactly in the hole, was a car. It was marvelous: it fitted absolutely perfectly, with its roof level with the road. The workmen hadn’t bothered to put up any signs at the end of the day,…

As a Middle class Brazilian who has lived in Australia half his life and grew up in Rio with a vocal Australian dad I may have something to add.

The case of the car in the hole has a socioeconomic explanation.

There is huge wealth and education disparity within Brazil and specially Rio.

The divide between a blue collar worker fixing the road in Rio and a white collar worker is extreme enough that they are actually from separate cities and I’d suggest different cultures.

The road worker would possibly live in a favela with close to no involvement from the government.

His only interactions with the “rich”, anyone who doesn’t live in a favela, also called “asphalt people” would be in the form of his superiors who pay him little, treat him like a replaceable resource, don’t provide him with adequate training or tools.

There is very little incentive for him to excel at his job or go out of his way to find clever solutions to work problems. There is no career plan here.

Once the clock ticks to 5pm he goes back to his universe. The rich can sort it out themselves.

Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party

#378

Richard Feynman on Brazil: 1. “That evening I went for a walk in town, and came upon a small crowd of people standing around a great big rectangular hole in the road—it had been “dug for sewer pipes, or something—and there, sitting exactly in the hole, was a car. It was marvelous: it fitted absolutely perfectly, with its roof level with the road. The workmen hadn’t bothered to put up any signs at the end of the day,…

As a brazilian who has had some education abroad, the most interesting thing Feynman wrote about Brazil was his critique of the education system [1]. I studied chemistry in high school without ever going into a lab. This holds for all classes, even maths: everything was abstract with no real-world applications. Even Portuguese Language classes had this disease: about a dozen rules for diacritics could be simplified a…

I too went through all of high school without ever stepping into a chemistry lab or performing any experiments of any kind.

Portuguese classes were agonisingly boring and devoid of practical use.

No choice of basic or advanced topics were allowed, everyone studies “advanced everything” and to fail one single subject meant you had to fail and re-do the entire year.

Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party

#379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They leave because they are lazy... Probably sounds better in the original German. These proofs by anecdotes are really fast food for the biased mind. Just as a thought experiment, if Brazilians are inherently 'lazy' as you say and it has nothing to do with the environment that they are in and its incentives, then are they also lazy abroad? Do they also forget to put signs when they dig holes? Do they do a worse se…

I don't care if they are Brazilians or Norwegian. If you leave an open hole for someone to fall down you are being negligent. The whole crux of my argument is to remove the concept of culture from the discussion unless it is absolutely necessary. Sorry to bow out but I think you are barking up the wrong tree trying to get me to say something unique about Brazil. Human laziness and general awfulness is universal.

> I don't care if they are Brazilians or Norwegian. If you leave an open hole for someone to fall down you are being negligent.

We agree then.

> _Brazilians_ don't leave uncovered holes in the street because of something entirely logical within their own culture. _They_ leave because they are lazy...

I guess it is fair to say that your point was quite hard to grasp based on your last sentence, seeing the other comments as well. If you say "Brazilians don't leave uncovered holes because of...", then it seems you are making a point about the whole population in a generalized sense. Therefore "they are lazy" also refer to this generalization.

Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party

#380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't care if they are Brazilians or Norwegian. If you leave an open hole for someone to fall down you are being negligent. The whole crux of my argument is to remove the concept of culture from the discussion unless it is absolutely necessary. Sorry to bow out but I think you are barking up the wrong tree trying to get me to say something unique about Brazil. Human laziness and general awfulness is universal.

> I don't care if they are Brazilians or Norwegian. If you leave an open hole for someone to fall down you are being negligent. We agree then. > _Brazilians_ don't leave uncovered holes in the street because of something entirely logical within their own culture. _They_ leave because they are lazy... I guess it is fair to say that your point was quite hard to grasp based on your last sentence, seeing the other commen…

Sorry, I was using Brazilians and "they" in the context of the thread. I was not attempting to make assertions, but carry them through the conversation.

Sorry that it came across that way, and for any offense!

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