On the same note, sometimes when I introduce two friends who don't know each other, I get the conversation rolling by (not overtly) getting them both to poke fun at me.
You have any lines or ideas you use to do that?
Why Hostility Can Bring People Closer Together
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Re: Why Hostility Can Bring People Closer Together
#12I see this pattern a lot in history. Things are bad until something worse comes along. There's some quote about each country needing a reasonably strong enemy. Without one, the country starts trying to find enemies and conflict within. Same thing might be happening in these mediations. By adding a bigger "enemy", the two parties probably quickly back down from trying to defend against to enemies and compromise with e…
I agree. I've noticed that too. That's why I sometimes joke, that we could really use the threat of impending alien invasion right about now - even if completely fabricated. This feels like the only way for the world to get its shit together.
(And on the smaller scale, I think that the perceived decay and ennui in western countries stems from the fact that there's no unifying goal for the nation; everyone just fends for themselves.)
Re: Why Hostility Can Bring People Closer Together
#13I think a related phenomenon plays a significant role in the current American political divide. Americans whose self-identity is threatened by increasing technology and connectivity make up for the loss by banding together against identifiable groups of others . Whether the opposing party did something to deserve the hostility seems to matter very little. What matters is that they can be blamed enough to facilitate a…
Reminds me of the starting quote of "The Toxoplasma Of Rage"[0] - "Nobody makes an IRC channel for no reason. Who are we doing this versus?".
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[0] - http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/12/17/the-toxoplasma-of-rage/
Re: Why Hostility Can Bring People Closer Together
#14I see this pattern a lot in history. Things are bad until something worse comes along. There's some quote about each country needing a reasonably strong enemy. Without one, the country starts trying to find enemies and conflict within. Same thing might be happening in these mediations. By adding a bigger "enemy", the two parties probably quickly back down from trying to defend against to enemies and compromise with e…
read "rally Americans against Russians[Democrats]/China[Republicans]"
Re: Why Hostility Can Bring People Closer Together
#15Earlier quoted context omitted.
There's supposed to be some sort of Arabic proverb that's something along the lines of "Me against my brothers, me and my brothers against my cousins, me and my brother and my cousins against the world". It feels like a lot of attempted global social policy of the past 50 or so years has been trying to create a stronger consciousness of "humanity" as a thing, with our new enemies being abstract issues like poverty, h…
I wish people felt the same about going to space as I do. I think that if we were more knowledge focused as a species that we'd be racing to the stars which would mean an insanely different mentality than the 'tow the line' kind of thing I think we have nowadays.
I would very much like us to go to space.
Re: Why Hostility Can Bring People Closer Together
#16I see this pattern a lot in history. Things are bad until something worse comes along. There's some quote about each country needing a reasonably strong enemy. Without one, the country starts trying to find enemies and conflict within. Same thing might be happening in these mediations. By adding a bigger "enemy", the two parties probably quickly back down from trying to defend against to enemies and compromise with e…
Happened in South Africa. Opposition parties were all united against apparently errant president Jacob Zuma of the ruling ANC.
His fall removed the common enemy, and the discourse devolved to identity/race/class politics as the country polarises around the "land issue."[0] Non-white South Africans previously united around the common desire to liberate themselves from apartheid. With that enemy removed, society finds itself fracturing as the cracks in a democratic rainbow nation are strained.
Obama gave a great speech where he touched on what it means to be a democrat (among other things) at the Nelson Mandela Centenary Lecture.[1] His analysis of the current state of affairs was sufficiently general that it applied both in the South African and Global contexts. Definitely a sober note in the political narrative after the ousting of the former pres.
[0] https://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/breaking-anc-will-su...
Re: Why Hostility Can Bring People Closer Together
#17Earlier quoted context omitted.
There's supposed to be some sort of Arabic proverb that's something along the lines of "Me against my brothers, me and my brothers against my cousins, me and my brother and my cousins against the world". It feels like a lot of attempted global social policy of the past 50 or so years has been trying to create a stronger consciousness of "humanity" as a thing, with our new enemies being abstract issues like poverty, h…
I wish people felt the same about going to space as I do. I think that if we were more knowledge focused as a species that we'd be racing to the stars which would mean an insanely different mentality than the 'tow the line' kind of thing I think we have nowadays.
Im a huge fan of learning about space, but sending human bodies seems impractical outside the novelty.
Everything is unfathomably far away.
There are lots of obstacles, near light speed travel is a necessity and we are nowhere near this ability, or that ability with a human undergoing the acceleration to light speed.
EDIT: So I suppose I'm suggesting putting our resources toward those beneficial causes on earth is better use.
Re: Why Hostility Can Bring People Closer Together
#18You can definitely see that in Russian politics. It’s very “enemy” oriented. Everyday we see on national tv that west countries are bad and against us. That we have our own path and so on and so on. And it’s very frustrating that it works because it's the only news sourse for many people. It’s psychological thing that a common enemy brings people together. Really hope it will change. We even have this idiom — my enemy’s enemy is my friend.
Re: Why Hostility Can Bring People Closer Together
#19Couldn't this simply be a test of the reciprocity principle? People who feel like they've wasted someone else's time are probably more likely to make an effort to resolve the problem so as to be less of an inconvenience to the other person, or to meet the other person's expectations. If the mediator is chipper no matter what, then nothing is socially at stake for the negotiators, and it shows that the mediator is unattached to the outcome(which isn't or shouldn't be true). On the other hand, the perception of being a nuisance also comes with the social implication that one isn't pulling their own weight of effort, and most of us naturally want to be judged well by the group we are a part of.
So perhaps it's less about hostility per se, but the covert social communication made through the hostility.
Re: Why Hostility Can Bring People Closer Together
#20On the same note, sometimes when I introduce two friends who don't know each other, I get the conversation rolling by (not overtly) getting them both to poke fun at me.
You have any lines or ideas you use to do that?
Probably not useful specific ones, as they're mostly about my own idiosyncracies. But if you can find a natural way to introduce some foible you have into the conversation, especially if it's something they've joked about before, that's a good start.
For example if you're perpetually late to things you could say "...as you both know, punctuality is important to me." And that gives them something to swoop in on.