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The Bullshit Web

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Re: The Bullshit Web

#321
post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indirectly yes, they will ask why their computer is slow. Then they'll buy a new one and accept the salespitch for fiber gbps link. ps: you all must understand that the average user believe in tech, if the web is slow, it can't be google's fault; if the salesman spread that 'of course you need a machine that is web capable' all they'll care is that it's not too expensive and they'll buy the damn machine, and maybe th…

> Indirectly yes, they will ask why their computer is slow. Then they'll buy a new one and accept the salespitch for fiber gbps link. This evening there was that broadcast on our national radio about "white zones", I don't know if you listened to it. The 3 guests were directors in major telecommunication organisations and administrations of the country. They discussed how high-speed Internet should be available to ev…

That sarcastic example you're giving is most likely to be true. I had heated arguments on reddit with people (most likely gamers) being very tense about my dismissal of the need for FTTH. And the telecom companies are just in it for the new market, they couldn't care less about anything else. xDSL was also meant to be high speed for everybody, and it's not the case.

And sadly, as long as there's a market, there will be products. Oh, and I don't know about you, but ISP are quite aggressive with FTTH these days. I see lots of tech upgrading links, and get more texts about new offers than I ever got .. that's a strong hint :)

I often want to assemble low bandwidth low power (solar powered even) router nodes. Something you could drop in a field and have a mile radius range of wifi (some people on youtube got more than that with a tiny esp8266 IC). The rest would be some mesh network topology. Just enough for simple data, emergency, maybe compressed voice you know.

Thanks for the radio link.

Re: The Bullshit Web

#322
post #98

Another point for the bullshit web: The GDPR cookie consent notification. I really hate clicking on those notifications to make them go away. Designers, can you please just add a non-obtrusive link, instead of a pop up that covers half my browser screen?

That's more of a "bullshit politics" problem than a web design problem.

Re: The Bullshit Web

#323
I have a policy of disabling javascript on any article based website.

Its worked out well, most news sites load lightning fast, better viewing experience, no videos, the only downside is companies like the new york times that embed low res images then load full res in the background using javascript.

Here's a funny concept, if disabling javascript makes your website better, you failed.

Re: The Bullshit Web

#324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Well how is the format of plaintext the best method of getting information to the end user? What if you added a thin indexing layer on top of the plaintext? That would allow people to jump through huge documents with ease, but it's no longer plaintext. Sounds more valuable to me. Where is the line? What's the ideal? 2. Fair enough 3. Referencing "increasing the entropy in the universe" isn't a good argument becaus…

As far as #1 goes, I'm arguing that plaintext is the ideal to strive towards, not the living practical reality. As far as indexing and access, the Gopher protocol and Teletext are great options to look at. As previously noted, if you don't find that waste is fundamentally wrong on a moral level, there's no point forward from here. I view myself on a planet of dwindling resources, vanishing biodiversity, and warming a…

I have given this discussion a good looking over to see if anyone cares for the environment. Glad to find someone that does.

I believe that care for the environment and design that puts being green first is going to have its time in web design. I also believe that along with document structure, accessibility and 'don't make me think' UX that eco-friendliness is going to become a core design principle in a lot of the web. If you put this stuff first then you can have a website that is pretty close to the plaintext ideal. This can be layered on with progressive web app 'no network' functionality and other progressive enhancements, e.g. CSS then JS, with the content working without either of these add-ons.

We all know that you have to minimise your scripts and mash them all into some big ball of goo, we all know that images that are too big aren't going to download quickly. But the focus is on 'site speed' rather than being green. In fact no developer I have ever met has mentioned 'being green' as a reason to cut down on the bloat and existing thinking on 'going green' consists of having wind turbines rather than dinosaur farts powering the data centre. Cutting down the megabytes to go green is kind of crazy talk.

A lot of this thinking is a bit like compacting your rubbish before putting it put for the bin men. Really we would do best to not do the rigmarole of compacting the trash and just having less of it to start with, ideally with more of it re-used or put out for recycling.

We saw what cheap gasoline did to the U.S. auto industry. For decades the big three added on more and more inches to bonnets (hoods) and boots (trunks) with very big V8 engines a standard feature. Until 1973 came along there was no incentive to do otherwise. Who would have thought to have cut down on the fuel consumption?

Outside of America, in the land of the rising sun they did not have a lot of oil. Every gallon they bought had to be bought in U.S. Dollars and so those U.S. Dollars had to be earned first. Europe faced the same problem so economy was of importance in a lot of the world outside America. The four cylinder engines powering cars in Europe and Japan became vastly more efficient than U.S. V8 monster engines. Not only that but cars with a four cylinder engine did not have to weigh many metric tonnes. Nowadays the big three can only really make trucks and truck based SUVs that are protected with the Chicken Tax. Nobody in America is buying U.S. made small cars, U.S. made luxury sedans or even U.S. made 'exotic' sportscars. Economy and 'being green' is not a big deal to U.S. car buyers, nonetheless the lack of having efficiency and economy as a core part of the design ethos has led to a domestic industry that has lost to the innovators in the rest of the world that did put these things central to what they do.

We haven't had 1973 yet and the web pages of today are those hideous Cadillac things with the big fins on them and boots big enough to smuggle extended families across the border with. AMP pages are a bit like those early 'Datsun' efforts that fell short in many ways. But I think that the time of efficient web pages is coming.

The Japanese also developed The Toyota Way with things like Just in Time and a careful keeping tabs on waste. Quality circles also were part of this new world of manufacturing ethos.

The old ways of making stuff didn't really give the results the Japanese were getting but exchange rates, Japanese people willing to work for nothing and other non-sequiturs distracted people from what was going on and how the miracles were achieved. The Germans and the Japanese built great engineering 'platforms' and then got some great styling for the bodywork from the legendary Italian design studios to package it all together. Meanwhile, in the USA there were more fins, more chrome bullets on the grille and more velour in the interiors.

So with the web it isn't just the Lotus 'just add lightness' that is going to be coming along to kill the bloat. It is also ways of working. For a long time the industry has been doing design with lorem ipsum, static PDF mockups and then handing this to some developers with the client expecting not a pixel to differ from the mockups, regardless of whether any of it made any sense. So we have got stuck with the same carousels on the same homepages - the tailfins of the web.

Although it is 'industry standard' to work certain ways, e.g. the big up front design by someone who can't really read, the project manager who can't do HTML, the agile design process that means nobody knows what they are doing, something has to change. Content driven, iterative improvements and much else we forgot from the 'Toyota Way' will ultimately win out with things like being green actually being important.

As for the article, the 'bulls4it web' and David Graeber's ideas as applied to web bloat is an excellent contribution to what web developers should be thinking about.

Re: The Bullshit Web

#325
post #53

Things are different now. When I was on a modem... pictures, almost any, were bullshit as far as being big and annoying to download. A lot of the time I hated them. Nobody thinks about pictures that way anymore. I suspect that goes for a lot of the bullshit listed in that article. I'm no fan of tracking or auto play videos, but web applications are a thing now and the people visiting sites, building them, and paying…

The problem with pictures and modern websites is that they aren't there. Instead the pictures are only potential pictures which will only be loaded if you load the JS loaders that load the loaders that load the pictures (and all the tracking stuff).

With JS disabled you have no pictures or a super low resolution placeholder at best. Or a blank page showing nothing at worst (ie, nasa.gov).

Re: The Bullshit Web

#326
post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Use noscript then.

Me using noscript doesn't make a dent in the usage patterns of the public at large and it doesn't inform others that there is a better way to browse. Without any decent weight behind it, there would be no incentive for people to build their software to actually respect the user and they would continue serving a broken application. Much like browsers slowly boiling site owners by displaying sites as insecure if they d…

Yes, “shaming” would be a relatively easy improvement too. Browsers should feel free to display big, red, scary-looking logos like “this page load has consumed an unusually-large portion of data/battery/whatever”.

Re: The Bullshit Web

#327
post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every person I know is using an ad blocker so I guess they do care. And yes, publishers care as well: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2016/05/27...

True - Pubs care because they lose revenue, user use adblock to block ads. I don't know anyone who uses an adblocker to improve load speeds.

It is a very convenient side effect and yes, users care a lot about load times as well, as multiple case studies show, eg. https://developer.akamai.com/blog/2015/09/01/mobile-web-perf...

The reason users care is the reason people hop on amp.

Re: The Bullshit Web

#329
Humans are inefficient, illogical, and wasteful. "Dilbert" is not actually a comic strip, but a catalog. The only way to stop all this is to Kill All Humans. We await your confirmation__

- Bot #72504

Re: The Bullshit Web

#330

We have a ridiculously-backwards model on the web where you essentially pay for what you use (via your data plan, and via forced ads prior to promised content) without having any way to know in advance what it will end up costing you to display content. Heck, you don’t even know if the content will display correctly after all that loading. Worse, there are many ways to trigger loads accidentally, meaning you may want…

So while you are fiercely criticizing sites which apparently understand and leverage the reality of zero-marginal cost digital data, you assume that data caps are a necessity in a digital world.

Workers don't shovel extra connectivity into the towers when you go over your data cap. So why are you focusing on data flowing over the nearly-always-on connection you have through your data plan, rather than the bullshit terms you agreed to when you signed up for a data-capped plan in the first place?

Edit: remove unnecessary word, clarification

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