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How Jack Ma took on eBay with Taobao

techinasia.com

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Re: How Jack Ma took on eBay with Taobao

#51

Post by pietroglyph »

taobility wrote: post #37
taobility wrote: post #33

From all these comments, you can tell how naive those commentors are. If you all blame the failure of eBay due to Chinese government, why it would choose Alibaba, not other Chinese companies? Why Alibaba would success and be one of Top 2 in China? In 2000s, Alibaba is nobody, and eBay is the giant with unlimited fund and great brand. But it still failed due to its vanity.

It's easy to blame Chinese government as it's political correct. But don't forget, Chinese market is also a fully competitive market.

I agree that it's easy to blame the Chinese government in this case, and that there's more to it than that, but just because competition exists in the Chinese economy doesn't mean the government isn't adjusting the scales behind the scenes.

Re: How Jack Ma took on eBay with Taobao

#52

Post by nehene »

not_that_noob wrote: post #39

Some of this is of course the Chinese government placing its thumb on the scales in favor of local businesses. It does this for a lot of reasons, but it's clear it happens. However, compare the situation to other more open countries (e.g. India, Japan, Indonesia ) There are culture, social and language specific nuances that local entrepreneurs understand far better than outsiders, and that accounts for a significant…

I think people are being lazy. Of course it is harder to operate in China than in e.g. Europe were US companies were able to avoid local regulation, make sweet heart deals to pay a lot less tax and engage in anti-competitive behavior. Still essentially all mayor tech companies, except Google and Facebook, are there.

The large reason for Chinas success is that for every segment that FAANG casts its shadow in the west there is at least half a dozen companies in China. Europe doesn't lack e.g. map providers that even today could compete with Google if it wasn't for the Google's dominance in the overall market.

Taobao is also a lot better than eBay. (And I don't see that in itself being a factor of anti-competitive behavior like in some other cases).

Re: How Jack Ma took on eBay with Taobao

#53

Post by patwalls »

docker_up wrote: post #9

Competing against eBay is like saying you're competing in a 100m race against someone in a wheelchair. eBay has done nothing to make itself better in the last 15 years. New "features" routinely fail, and their APIs are a graveyard of dropped ideas. I hope Taobao expands to the US, eBay needs real competition, anyone working there should be embarrassed for themselves, more importantly the Directors and above.

I used eBay to sell a couple of electronics in the last couple months.

It was hands down one of the worst experiences I've ever had with software.

Scammers made dozens of buy it now requests, fake paypal invoices, losing the auction at the last second to a scammer. To top that off, I experienced a bug that didn't allow me to relist my item, and I still haven't been able to sell the item.

I hadn't used eBay in 5 years. I couldn't believe how bad the experience was. If I had money I would short their stock.

Re: How Jack Ma took on eBay with Taobao

#54

Post by nehene »

dqpb wrote: post #4

> Jack told me: “I started looking at the market and realized that, pretty soon, eBay was going to try to get aggressive with its business in China. They’d start with consumers, but over time they will start coming after Alibaba’s wholesalers. Competition was inevitable. So I decided the only way we can slow them down is to launch a site to compete directly with their Chinese language site." That, plus the fact that…

> That, plus the fact that China will just pull the plug on any American business gaining too much traction.

So did they? We all know why Google and Facebook isn't in China, but as far as I can tell I don't find similar conflicts regarding companies like Amazon and eBay. The consensus online seems to be that they have been failing in the Chinese market by their own hand. Which does sound pretty plausible considering they aren't even that good in Europe.

Re: How Jack Ma took on eBay with Taobao

#55

Post by influx »

metalliqaz wrote: post #30
justaman wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't imagine a better way to ensure the business suffers in the long term. (coming from an American who see's how poorly run government institutions are)

Yes but it some respects you're comparing apples to oranges. The US political system is perpetually focused on the short term because of the ~4 year election cycle. China has a president for life and single-party rule. They are able to make and execute long term plans, which is why they are currently succeeding at reshaping the global trade landscape. (all roads lead to China, and all that) It's not just that the gov…

So if China is long term going to be the end all be all, why are the Chinese elite doing everything in their power to get their cash and kids out of the country?

Re: How Jack Ma took on eBay with Taobao

#56

Post by onetimemanytime »

nehene wrote: post #54
dqpb wrote: post #4

> Jack told me: “I started looking at the market and realized that, pretty soon, eBay was going to try to get aggressive with its business in China. They’d start with consumers, but over time they will start coming after Alibaba’s wholesalers. Competition was inevitable. So I decided the only way we can slow them down is to launch a site to compete directly with their Chinese language site." That, plus the fact that…

> That, plus the fact that China will just pull the plug on any American business gaining too much traction. So did they? We all know why Google and Facebook isn't in China, but as far as I can tell I don't find similar conflicts regarding companies like Amazon and eBay. The consensus online seems to be that they have been failing in the Chinese market by their own hand. Which does sound pretty plausible considering…

Google didn't have any problems with China...until it did. No court to sue either, unless you want to waste your time and money.

Re: How Jack Ma took on eBay with Taobao

#57

Post by DownVoteFuckers »

dqpb wrote: post #4

> Jack told me: “I started looking at the market and realized that, pretty soon, eBay was going to try to get aggressive with its business in China. They’d start with consumers, but over time they will start coming after Alibaba’s wholesalers. Competition was inevitable. So I decided the only way we can slow them down is to launch a site to compete directly with their Chinese language site." That, plus the fact that…

Sore losers always blame the system. Haters are going to hate. As a matter of fact, many American companies are doing very well in China. For instance, Apple, Intel, AMD, Nvidia, IBM, Ford, GM, Starbucks generate a large portion of its profits from China. They are doing very well. Ebay lost because its product and execution. Chinese internet companies are very competitive. They are relentless.

Re: How Jack Ma took on eBay with Taobao

#58

Post by wanghq »

pietroglyph wrote: post #51
taobility wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's easy to blame Chinese government as it's political correct. But don't forget, Chinese market is also a fully competitive market.

I agree that it's easy to blame the Chinese government in this case, and that there's more to it than that, but just because competition exists in the Chinese economy doesn't mean the government isn't adjusting the scales behind the scenes.

Alibaba not only competes with non-Chinese companies but also domestic companies/banks which have a closer relationship to government than Alibaba. For example, imagine how hard to start Alipay business when banks don't support you.

Re: How Jack Ma took on eBay with Taobao

#59

Post by [deleted] »

jdietrich wrote: post #50
techwizrd wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was interning at eBay a few years ago, they were doing some amazing work. I worked with the machine translation team and they were doing cutting edge research all over the place with new patents being awarded regularly (even to interns!). Many of their algorithms like spelling correction were significantly better than the state of the art, in part due to their unique data set. They were also actively rebuildin…

Clever tech experiments don't make up for hostile UX. I begrudgingly use eBay when I have no other choice, but I don't enjoy the experience one bit. The listings are flooded with obviously counterfeit products, obviously dangerous electrical goods and Chinese sellers who are obviously lying about their location. The massive fees I pay as a seller offer me no safeguards whatsoever, because the seller protection polici…

[deleted]

Re: How Jack Ma took on eBay with Taobao

#60

Post by qiqing »

nehene wrote: post #54
dqpb wrote: post #4

> Jack told me: “I started looking at the market and realized that, pretty soon, eBay was going to try to get aggressive with its business in China. They’d start with consumers, but over time they will start coming after Alibaba’s wholesalers. Competition was inevitable. So I decided the only way we can slow them down is to launch a site to compete directly with their Chinese language site." That, plus the fact that…

> That, plus the fact that China will just pull the plug on any American business gaining too much traction. So did they? We all know why Google and Facebook isn't in China, but as far as I can tell I don't find similar conflicts regarding companies like Amazon and eBay. The consensus online seems to be that they have been failing in the Chinese market by their own hand. Which does sound pretty plausible considering…

Starbucks is doing very well in China (as well as KFC, Pizza Hut, and McDonalds, and their compatriots), and also Apple, Nike, Tesla, Coach, Carrefour, Tesco, and more. (Latter 2 are from Europe.)

Prior to the rise of Taobao, most of my family members didn't really use eBay in China. Most of them prefer using mobile (like the bulk of consumers in China), but if you prioritize the browser experience and 'consistency across the global platform' over what your local users want, well, shrug, let's pretend there's nothing to learn here from a UX perspective...

In contrast, Starbucks has a different user experience when you walk into one in Shanghai or Hangzhou. You place your order and pay for it via phone and pick it up at the register and you don't have to stand in a line. I wish they'd replicate that in the US.

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