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In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party

bbc.com

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Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party

#331

Post by schoen »

jklinger410 wrote: post #300
sonnyblarney wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As to 1, no, it's neither 'education' nor 'lack of resources' really. It's a matter of conscientiousness and responsibility. Even if there were no signs immediately available, nobody with an ounce of decency would leave a large hole unmarked. Signs are not expensive, if they're not available it's because of a lack of intelligent and responsible acting somewhere else in in the value chain. As for #2, it's still a lack…

I love your response because it's a great take-down of the "everything is relative and cultural" argument, which I have always thought comes from an overactive imagination. When you start to reduce life down to simplistic concepts, everything is not relative and cultural. Sure, maybe on the fringes (.01%) there are situations that are heavily influenced by those. But for most things in life (near or on mazlowe's hier…

When I first went to Rio in 2003 and saw the greater abundance of moderately dangerous situations compared to U.S. cities, I thought it was partly due to differences in legal systems and legal culture. In the U.S., an accident resulting in personal injury is very likely to lead to a lawsuit and there are a huge number of lawyers entirely specialized in personal injury cases. This is less so in Brazil.

I don't have a clear answer about where that difference comes from, but I thought it was a factor in people's differing behavior.

Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party

#332

Post by msansjr »

gota wrote: post #47
jimmy1 wrote: post #18

I work with brazillians often, we have an office there. It's easy to accommodate as well -- I just do the same thing I do with my mother: tell her the start time is way earlier than it actually is, and then she is on time. For example if dinner is at 6:45, I tell her dinner is at 6:15, and expect her to arrive 30 minutes late. You have to tweak it a bit for different situations (for example, a meeting, is about -15,…

I'm not accusng you of lying but this story is extremely suspicious. It conflicts completely with my professional and personal experience, which I'm pretty sure is close to the general truth. Unless you have found yourself working with a very peculiar group of people, you are being duped or just exaggerating to the point of being outright wrong. It is absolutely not a custom anywhere in Brazil, not even in Rio, to be…

Nah, not suspicious at all! I am a Brazilian and still live here (for better or worse).

I live in Minas Gerais, where things are not this bad, but last month we gave a party for my daughter's birthday. All the invitations were sent with a 30 minute offset from the real start time as agreed with the caterer because we knew everyone would be late, and it turned out fine.

All my professional meetings start at least 15 minutes late, and it enrages me to no end! Yes, it is really that bad!

>To be blunt, the idea that you could correct such behavior from professional adults by duping them with altered schedules is even childish.

I tell you, it's real...

Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party

#333

Post by cm2012 »

dmix wrote: post #296
sonnyblarney wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are all correlated and I'm not pointing fingers. A society in which nobody give a crap ... it's hard to find people that will consistently rise above.

Indeed, it's also dangerous to be so passe about everything. Especially construction. Just because it's a cultural phenomenon doesn't make it an admirable one or one that should just be accepted as 'how it is'. Plenty of cultures have evolved and changed for the better. A subset of Scots from an area near the border on England used to be known for having a culture where fist fighting over disputes was common and educ…

Completely agreed. Didn't mean to imply otherwise!

Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party

#334

Post by Arelius »

cm2187 wrote: post #68
jacobwilliamroy wrote: post #24

"My impression as to your cheap labour was soon disillusioned when I saw your people at work. No doubt they are lowly paid, but the return is equally so; to see your men at work made me feel that you are a very satisfied and easy-going race who reckon time is no object. When I spoke to some managers they informed me that it was impossible to change the habits of a national heritage." This excerpt appears in Ha-Joon C…

It's amusing and in line with what my grand mother who grew up in the early 1900s Indochina told me about her (french) dad doing business there. The Chinese had the reputation to be super reliable and men of their word, while the Japanese had the reputation to be unreliable and ready to cross you at the first opportunity. On a longer time scale, it is hard when you look at Italy or Greece today to think of how the sa…

While I think your point rings true, trying to use your historical examples to point it out dismisses human migration among other factors that may have contributed. For instance, there is a good chance that most "Spartans" have died off as a people, since their population problems are well documented. and both the army of Alexander the Great, and the Roman Empire are armies of much larger territory then current Italy/Greece in their peak. And much of Macedonia of Alexander's early reign isn't part of what's typical Greece today.

That's just nit-picking about the complexities of history, but I do agree that the point that people and cultures can change is very true!

Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party

#335

Post by Semaphor »

poulsbohemian wrote: post #26
acchow wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there's 20 people going to a party, does anyone think the "start time" is really when you're supposed to be there? I think of it more as "don't come before this time".

Depends on the culture. Historically if you told a German 5:00, that meant 5:00 - nor 4:59, not 5:01. "Fashionably late" is an American thing.

I'll always remember our international parties here (in Germany). Party starts, some of us show 5 minutes early, some up to 10 minutes late. Then there is about a 50-60 minute break and the Italians and Spanish would start arriving.

Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party

#336

Post by brabel »

lucantini wrote: post #315

As a Brazilian myself, I hate this. People are not late to work related stuff, but on a social setting this is ridiculous! I'm very punctual in everything that I do and always get to events on time. I hate the fact that being late is considered "cultural" and not a huge middle finger to other people's time.

I was surprised to find that in Sweden, it's very similar to Brazil: people never come to parties on time. A delay of 30 minutes to 1.5 hours is about right. So, it's not just a "poor" country thing, I think.

Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party

#337

Post by bvc35 »

dempseye wrote: post #166
jacobwilliamroy wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a caveat, I am not an economist, and am quickly approaching the edge of my knowledge. I think that time is not really a factor here. Institutions like the IMF and WTO passively suppress the economic development of poor countries by withholding incentives unless they behave like rich countries. I don't think this is done out of malice though, because I've met people who genuinely believe that forcing businesses i…

Honest question: why would being an economist allow you to competently answer that question? Is knowledge of how to change the mindset and behaviour of a complete country within the purview of economists?

If you ask an economist, he will define economics as the study of human action, making him an expert on nearly (or entirely, depending on the economist) all disciplines, questions, and problems.

Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party

#338

Post by neves »

schoen wrote: post #331
jklinger410 wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love your response because it's a great take-down of the "everything is relative and cultural" argument, which I have always thought comes from an overactive imagination. When you start to reduce life down to simplistic concepts, everything is not relative and cultural. Sure, maybe on the fringes (.01%) there are situations that are heavily influenced by those. But for most things in life (near or on mazlowe's hier…

When I first went to Rio in 2003 and saw the greater abundance of moderately dangerous situations compared to U.S. cities, I thought it was partly due to differences in legal systems and legal culture. In the U.S., an accident resulting in personal injury is very likely to lead to a lawsuit and there are a huge number of lawyers entirely specialized in personal injury cases. This is less so in Brazil. I don't have a…

The justice system is really slow and expensive. It can take years to end a lawsuit. Judges have 2 months and a half of vacation and most of them work less than 8 daily hours.

Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party

#339

Post by novacole »

jklinger410 wrote: post #300
sonnyblarney wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As to 1, no, it's neither 'education' nor 'lack of resources' really. It's a matter of conscientiousness and responsibility. Even if there were no signs immediately available, nobody with an ounce of decency would leave a large hole unmarked. Signs are not expensive, if they're not available it's because of a lack of intelligent and responsible acting somewhere else in in the value chain. As for #2, it's still a lack…

I love your response because it's a great take-down of the "everything is relative and cultural" argument, which I have always thought comes from an overactive imagination. When you start to reduce life down to simplistic concepts, everything is not relative and cultural. Sure, maybe on the fringes (.01%) there are situations that are heavily influenced by those. But for most things in life (near or on mazlowe's hier…

I think a better approach than calling them lazy, would be to look into how easy it is to sue, who can be sued and what the difference is between the limit on liquidated damages allowable between the “lazy” countries and a place like the US.

Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party

#340

Post by pwaai »

jacobwilliamroy wrote: post #24

"My impression as to your cheap labour was soon disillusioned when I saw your people at work. No doubt they are lowly paid, but the return is equally so; to see your men at work made me feel that you are a very satisfied and easy-going race who reckon time is no object. When I spoke to some managers they informed me that it was impossible to change the habits of a national heritage." This excerpt appears in Ha-Joon C…

Thanks for bringing up that book it was lost in my memories and now I just ordered it on kindle.
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