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Why Americans Spend So Much on Health Care–In 12 Charts

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Re: Why Americans Spend So Much on Health Care–In 12 Charts

#101

Post by thingschanged »

howard941 wrote: post #12

> Consumers, meanwhile, buoyed by insurance and tax breaks, have little idea how much they are really spending and little incentive to know underlying costs. Almost weekly there's another post showing that consumers literally cannot find out costs usually because the provider cannot supply it. It's time to put a stake in the heart of the recurring blame-the-consumer trope.

The govt needs to rip out the tax deduction for employers, which is a big band aid. Until this is done nothing will change.

Your company doesnt pay for your car insurance or home insurance, why does it pay for your health insurance?

Re: Why Americans Spend So Much on Health Care–In 12 Charts

#102

Post by gremlinsinc »

thingschanged wrote: post #101
howard941 wrote: post #12

> Consumers, meanwhile, buoyed by insurance and tax breaks, have little idea how much they are really spending and little incentive to know underlying costs. Almost weekly there's another post showing that consumers literally cannot find out costs usually because the provider cannot supply it. It's time to put a stake in the heart of the recurring blame-the-consumer trope.

The govt needs to rip out the tax deduction for employers, which is a big band aid. Until this is done nothing will change. Your company doesnt pay for your car insurance or home insurance, why does it pay for your health insurance?

Agreed this needs done asap. Benefits hold unsatisfied workers captive, get rid of this bandaid -- and maybe we can afford Medicare for all.

One other option -- make Hospitals be both insurer/provider. They get recurring monthly income, they'd pay 'other' providers when you're travelling out of network, but they'd be more able to bring down costs, the government should set limits though on surgeries and their needs to be more transparency in pricing.

You'd subscribe to your local hospital and pay a % of your income to the hospital they'd take everyone regardless of income level.

Re: Why Americans Spend So Much on Health Care–In 12 Charts

#104

Post by gremlinsinc »

jcadam wrote: post #81
y-c-o-m-b wrote: post #43

Healthcare costs are by far the #1 reason why I want to move out of the U.S. as soon as possible. I am well off, but due to recent experience I have a major anxiety about going bankrupt from another unexpected health issue. I had emergency spine surgery last year and despite coordinating everything I could to stay in network prior to entering the hospital - surgeon was in network, hospital in network, etc... - the mo…

> Healthcare costs are by far the #1 reason why I want to move out of the U.S. as soon as possible. Hope you and your family are in perfect health if you plan to immigrate to a country with socialized healthcare. Most such countries will reject families with an autistic child, for example, based on the notion that said child will be heavily dependent on govt/health services.

What is your source for this? I know people in Canada and France with autistic kids who have never had any such issues.

Re: Why Americans Spend So Much on Health Care–In 12 Charts

#105

Post by tzs »

opportune wrote: post #64
nkw wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I like to think I'm pretty darn on the liberal side of the spectrum, but the (ACA if Democrat) (Obamacare if Republican) was overall a giant handout to the health insurance companies while carrying forward almost all of the pre-existing problems with health care in the US (see the charts in the original article). Both parties share substantial amount of blame for the current state of health care in the US. It is h…

This is it. Both parties have failed with healthcare - Republicans through complete inaction, and Democrats through pushing through legislation that simply expanded insurance coverage. While I think the ACA made things better than before (it got a lot more people insured and thus no longer easily susceptible to medical bankruptcy), it was a very imperfect and inefficient solution. Because of the donors to each side -…

> While I think the ACA made things better than before (it got a lot more people insured and thus no longer easily susceptible to medical bankruptcy), it was a very imperfect and inefficient solution

Could they have done better?

Normally a big bill like this would pass the House. Then the Senate would make several changes in order to get enough votes to pass there. Then it would go back to the House, where the House would make another round of changes...then back to the Senate, and so on.

But in this case, that stopped early. It came from the House. Changes were made in the Senate that were able to get it through, 60-39 (60 were needed because Republicans were filibustering). One of those 60 was from the person temporarily filling the seat of the recently deceased Senator Kennedy.

It went back to the House, and while it was there the special election to fill Kennedy's seat was held, and a Republican won, and the Democrats lost the ability to break a filibuster.

So the Democrats in the House went with the bill as it came from the Senate, because that was the only thing they could pass that would not have to get past a Senate filibuster. (They were able to make some changes separately, because some of the changes they wanted, such as some relating to subsidies, because those counted as budgetary changes, and there is a separate procedure for reconciling budget changes between the House and Senate that is not subject to filibuster).

Wikipedia has a good, detailed, account: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patient_Protection_and_Afforda...

Re: Why Americans Spend So Much on Health Care–In 12 Charts

#106

Post by gremlinsinc »

nkw wrote: post #89
opportune wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is it. Both parties have failed with healthcare - Republicans through complete inaction, and Democrats through pushing through legislation that simply expanded insurance coverage. While I think the ACA made things better than before (it got a lot more people insured and thus no longer easily susceptible to medical bankruptcy), it was a very imperfect and inefficient solution. Because of the donors to each side -…

I'm actually surprised there has not been more pressure by the business community to decouple health care/health insurance from employment. Health insurance costs, and the administrative effort to provide it, are an enormous burden on businesses/employers. From small business to giant corporations, it is an extraordinary burden that is only going to increase and at some point is going to start seriously impacting the…

Actually, businesses love healthcare coverage. The most costly thing in a business (esp. tech) is recruitment. If you give awesome benefits, a lot of people might decide it's 'safer' to stick with your company even though they're burned out and would rather work for an exciting startup, or something.

Benefits are a tool to turn workers into slaves, and stop job mobility. Sure there are other benefits, but healthcare is the biggest and most costly. The better health a company gives the more likely employees are to stick with it.

Re: Why Americans Spend So Much on Health Care–In 12 Charts

#107

Post by tptacek »

dnomad wrote: post #49
rayiner wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do democratic politicians have some sort of training in maintaining the farce that more things should be handled by government, when governments in Illinois, California, New York, etc.--democratic strongholds where Republicans cannot be pointed to as the scapegoats--are on the verge of bankruptcy? I don't think, deep down, republicans think the current system is better. They just don't trust whatever replaces it won'…

You're really disconnected from reality of you think California and New York, the two most dynamic and wealthiest states that actually fund directly and indirectly most of the other states, are on the verge of bankruptcy. Try coming back to the real world and examining the facts. There's a very good reason why certain states are high tax and high growth while others are welfare operations that unfortunately can lever…

California and Illinois have two of the worst fiscal conditions in the country, ranked #43 and #49 (by GMU) among states respectively, based on cash on hand vs. immediate obligations, debt to income, and liabilities to assets. California's unfunded guaranteed pension obligations alone add up to almost half its personal income. Don't even ask about Illinois.

New York isn't much better. It's #39. New Jersey, home to a huge percentage of the NYC workforce, is #50!

Re: Why Americans Spend So Much on Health Care–In 12 Charts

#108

Post by gremlinsinc »

rayiner wrote: post #15
komali2 wrote: post #8

Do republican politicians, and others in charge of maintaining this healthcare farce we have, have some sort of training in "convince the downtrodden to vote for things that make their lives harder" or is it just something natural? I say this as a Wisconsin emigrant that watched my home state shoot itself in the face time and time and time again.

Do democratic politicians have some sort of training in maintaining the farce that more things should be handled by government, when governments in Illinois, California, New York, etc.--democratic strongholds where Republicans cannot be pointed to as the scapegoats--are on the verge of bankruptcy? I don't think, deep down, republicans think the current system is better. They just don't trust whatever replaces it won'…

We could spend a lot less money on un-needed things. For one, why are we the police of the world? What if we shut down ALL military bases abroad, docked most of our carriers except in times of war, put half the military on reserves.

What if we capped politician benefits across America at what the average American's is?

One big thing is-- if we ended Healthcare's ability to 'lobby' washington... made it illegal to spend healthcare money in lobbying endeavors, they could divert that to r/d and other worthwhile endeavors...

All insurance companies are --are companies that take our money and pay medical companies...couldn't the medical companies become the insurer?

What if instead of single-payer hospitals would take 'subscribers' locally, they'd pay 6% of their income. Make it a requirement that every American needs to signup with a hospital, and that all hospitals need to take anyone regardless of income or lack thereof.

Hospitals would then have a guaranteed monthly residual income they can track/chart and use to figure out their budget. We'd no longer be wasting ANY money on insurance CEO's, etc...

When traveling your host hospital pays the guest hospital, or other providers. The hospitals could work with each other to bring prices/costs down.

There are solutions and there's ways to pay for things, like maybe dropping progressive income taxes for consumption/vat instead... a vat would be paid by anyone in the country regardless of legal status, citizen or immigrant. So everyone would contribute.

Re: Why Americans Spend So Much on Health Care–In 12 Charts

#109

Post by davidw »

tzs wrote: post #105
opportune wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is it. Both parties have failed with healthcare - Republicans through complete inaction, and Democrats through pushing through legislation that simply expanded insurance coverage. While I think the ACA made things better than before (it got a lot more people insured and thus no longer easily susceptible to medical bankruptcy), it was a very imperfect and inefficient solution. Because of the donors to each side -…

> While I think the ACA made things better than before (it got a lot more people insured and thus no longer easily susceptible to medical bankruptcy), it was a very imperfect and inefficient solution Could they have done better? Normally a big bill like this would pass the House. Then the Senate would make several changes in order to get enough votes to pass there. Then it would go back to the House, where the House…

Why bother with pesky facts when there's astute sounding 'both sidesism'.

Re: Why Americans Spend So Much on Health Care–In 12 Charts

#110

Post by davidw »

gremlinsinc wrote: post #106
nkw wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm actually surprised there has not been more pressure by the business community to decouple health care/health insurance from employment. Health insurance costs, and the administrative effort to provide it, are an enormous burden on businesses/employers. From small business to giant corporations, it is an extraordinary burden that is only going to increase and at some point is going to start seriously impacting the…

Actually, businesses love healthcare coverage. The most costly thing in a business (esp. tech) is recruitment. If you give awesome benefits, a lot of people might decide it's 'safer' to stick with your company even though they're burned out and would rather work for an exciting startup, or something. Benefits are a tool to turn workers into slaves, and stop job mobility. Sure there are other benefits, but healthcare…

Yep, don't forget that market friendly and business friendly (and especially big business) are two different things.

https://promarket.org/donald-trumps-economic-policy-pro-busi...

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