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Hello World on z/OS

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Re: Hello World on z/OS

#61

Post by krylon »

JdeBP wrote: post #49
krylon wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like that the kernel is called "nucleus". It's like parallel evolution, many concepts are the same, but they developed independently, so the naming is different. I did not mind the names, at the time I had plenty of old mainframe hands around, who were actually happy I showed such an interest in their work, so they gladly took their time to answer any and all questions I had. Fun times... :-)

The names "kernel" and "nucleus" are not in fact different, let alone different concepts. "Control Program" is by far the more different name in this regard. * https://superuser.com/a/329479/38062

Thank you! Control program sounds even more nostalgic.

Re: Hello World on z/OS

#62

Post by xoa »

bunderbunder wrote: post #22
mattzito wrote: post #16

The mainframe infrastructure is both the core feature and showstopper bug of the platform. On the plus side, it has empowered countless core business applications to scale years, even decades, beyond their original development lifecycle. On the negative side, it has created a stagnant cult of mainframe “priests” who oversee a platform that most businesses would rather get rid of, if they could only figure out how. My…

I think that, within the context of that story, both directors are missing the deeper issue: A company's technology decisions aren't just about the final state, they're also about getting the project bootstrapped, and all the other technology decisions between that point and the final state. So it's not just that Facebook had already done it their way, it's that, along the way, they never had any realistic alternativ…

>I think that, within the context of that story, both directors are missing the deeper issue: A company's technology decisions aren't just about the final state, they're also about getting the project bootstrapped, and all the other technology decisions between that point and the final state. So it's not just that Facebook had already done it their way, it's that, along the way, they never had any realistic alternatives that led toward a mainframe solution.

Absolutely agreed, "path dependency" is a big issue that comes up in a lot of different contexts both in the natural world and human endeavors. Just because from a high level or after the fact someone can identify a much more optimal final result doesn't mean that result was actually realistic to get to, or would be worth moving to from whatever local minima a project ended up in. I think path dependency plays a major part in what makes "disruption" possible, and in how businesses can sometimes be eaten from the bottom. A lot of companies end up in a state where they have a bunch of end point products but they haven't considered the paths necessary for users to reach that end point. Without a ramp their pipe can slowly empty.

Re: Hello World on z/OS

#63

Post by rbanffy »

Just a shameless plug: there is very little information in the form of Stack Overflow-like things and getting started with mainframes is, as this article shows, pretty hard. I made this SE proposal that's in commitment stage (where people commit to support the community). If you know about mainframes and are willing to be part of it, you should commit too.

https://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/118484/mainframes...

Re: Hello World on z/OS

#65

Post by rbanffy »

SuperPaintMan wrote: post #51
nine_k wrote: post #33

This is a nice reminder about how one feels when one meets a piece of technology for which one's intuition can't offer anything useful, many "common sense" assumptions end up incorrect, and you don't even know the right words to feed to a web search engine. I'll try to memorize this feeling, and remember it every time I try to explain something technical to people outside that field. Maybe it will help me explain bet…

My introduction to z/OS mirrors the posters. A week of trying to google random keywords, copy JCL, waffle about the system trying to get anything done. Eventually copied out some JCL from a frame of a paused youtube video, and another four hours to track down a system library I needed. But the entire system is fascinating and it kept me going. The once unappealing 600page manual on IBM Enterprise Cobol became the def…

You both could give us a hand here: https://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/118484/mainframes...

Re: Hello World on z/OS

#66

Post by rbanffy »

nine_k wrote: post #33

This is a nice reminder about how one feels when one meets a piece of technology for which one's intuition can't offer anything useful, many "common sense" assumptions end up incorrect, and you don't even know the right words to feed to a web search engine. I'll try to memorize this feeling, and remember it every time I try to explain something technical to people outside that field. Maybe it will help me explain bet…

I remember when someone referred to Unix as the User Hostile Operating System.

They obviously never used MVS (z/OS's ancestor), OS/400 (now I/OS or something like that) or Burroughs' MCP (when an OS lends its name to a movie super villain, you have to respect it).

Re: Hello World on z/OS

#67

Post by kitd »

dralley wrote: post #21
mattzito wrote: post #16

The mainframe infrastructure is both the core feature and showstopper bug of the platform. On the plus side, it has empowered countless core business applications to scale years, even decades, beyond their original development lifecycle. On the negative side, it has created a stagnant cult of mainframe “priests” who oversee a platform that most businesses would rather get rid of, if they could only figure out how. My…

One of my older coworkers told me that IBM used to have a travelling mainframe demo in the back of a truck. As part of this demo, they would start a big computation, and then reach into the mainframe and start pulling out RAM and entire CPUs straight from the sockets, while the thing kept right on computing.

The current "funfact" is that the on/off button on a Z-series machine is only designed to be used twice.

Re: Hello World on z/OS

#68

Post by rbanffy »

krylon wrote: post #61
JdeBP wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The names "kernel" and "nucleus" are not in fact different, let alone different concepts. "Control Program" is by far the more different name in this regard. * https://superuser.com/a/329479/38062

Thank you! Control program sounds even more nostalgic.

While working with an A-6 Unisys mainframe, I met Tron's original super villain: MCP.

Yes. The villain was named after the operating system. My feeling was that it really hated users.

Re: Hello World on z/OS

#69

Post by e12e »

tony-allan wrote: post #9
Svip wrote: post #7

In the 'Allocate New Data Set' screenshot, it says - for the expiration date field - that the formats are 'YY/MM/DD, YYYY/MM/DD, YY.DDD, YYYY.DDD in Julian form, DDDD for retention periods in days or blank'. (I added some commas, which I assume are supposed to be there, but are just line breaks in the screenshot.) Does that mean z/OS supports the Julian calendar?

YYYY.DDD is the year and the day within the year (1..365)

1..366, surely?

Re: Hello World on z/OS

#70

Post by SuperPaintMan »

Keyframe wrote: post #58

Check this out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uv7ThVwb7m8 BASICS of running COBOL / JCL on z/OS. Almost of a conundrum like React/Redux. Almost.

This is literally the video I ripped my first JCL from in my post above. I believe the relevant section is around 4:30 :)
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