Live data from Hacker News

Ex-SolarCity employees: We were fired after reporting millions in fake sales

arstechnica.com

31–40 of 194 posts

Re: Ex-SolarCity employees: We were fired after reporting millions in fake sales

#31
My partner worked for various solar companies (But not Solar City) as a canvasser hoping to get some sales experience. As a result we got to see first hand how corrupt and underhanded their sales departments could be.

Canvassers were exploited mercilessly and commissions never appeared as new requirements were added to the payouts. Paychecks bounced periodically. Canvassers would be told to go door to door in areas where solicitation was illegal even though the company knew it was illegal and risked getting their employees arrested. Managers would hire friends and use fake leads to make them look good.

I kind of hoped that Solar City would be an exception but I'm not surprised. It seems like the entire solar industry is focused more on extracting government subsidies than on creating long term revenue streams. I don't think management is very confident of the long term prospects of residential solar. Especially considering pushback from utility companies.

Re: Ex-SolarCity employees: We were fired after reporting millions in fake sales

#32
post #22
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That construction is so weird that I'm going to assume it was a typo and that they meant "tens or hundreds"

Ok. So it could be either $40M or $400M - that's a huge range. Let's assume something in the middle, like $200m. Does it seem credible to you guys that nobody except the three plaintiffs noticed that SolarCity faked half of their 2016 revenue?

I would wager that anything in a range 10%-50% of missing revenue, for a publicly traded company, would be caught by external auditor. And I’d im not mistaken, external auditors are required. If I’m wrong on either of those accounts, then I’d be seriously concerned about our stock market.

Re: Ex-SolarCity employees: We were fired after reporting millions in fake sales

#33

Idk, all this hearsay and the saboteur rebranded whistleblower coming out against TSLA/SolarCity with no real substantial proof. Still cant help but wonder if it's just the usual stock shorters creating new opportunities for themselves or fossil fuel supporters and baby boomers looking for new ways to destroy TSLA.

Certainly a lot of short sellers ( and bulls ) spreading rumors online, but this seems more like the continuation of the war between elon musk and journalists. There have been a surprising number of hit pieces by a number of news companies against musk and his companies lately. I think I've seen more negative news articles concerning elon musk in the past 4 months than the 4 years before that. There seems to be a pat…

And Ironically, these same people probably have an appreciation for renewable energy but will spite the environment to settle petty scores.

Re: Ex-SolarCity employees: We were fired after reporting millions in fake sales

#34
Ok, I can write out the script for this knowing only the headline.

- Elon defenders will jump in and claim it's all lies

- Elon haters will chime in with "j'accuse!"

I honestly don't know the truth about this (few would) but let me point some things:

1. I would find it strange if sales people were paid bonuses (let alone commissions) on non-real sales.

2. Even if bonuses were paid when no money was paid by the customer, this would eventually get reconciled and at some point pretty quickly that salesperson would get flagged.

3. Knowing that "tens or [sic] hundreds of millions of dollars" was in nonexistent sales would make an officer of the company guilty of any number of securities infractions. Not that this isn't possible of course but the severity of this has to be weighed against the benefits to make it more or less likely that it occurred given the potential outcomes.

4. Was SolarCity a public (note: "public" != "publicly listed") company? If so, there are financial reporting issues too. As well as any obligations to shareholders or financiers.

5. SolarCity was no stranger to lawsuits or government investigations [1].

6. The buyout by Tesla is, on paper, suspect. One way to describe it is: one of Elon's companies (Tesla) bought (arguably "bailed out") a second of Elon's companies (SolarCity) that owed a lot of money it would arguably default on to a third of Elon's companies (SpaceX). Not much happened here remotely resembling at arm's length.

7. People who get fired, rightly or wrong, have their own motivations for speaking out and rarely is it ever to say "yeah, I screwed up" but that's the case at least some of the time. Not that I'm saying it is here (again, no knowledge of the specifics) but just bear that in mind.

8. Ex-employees might be suing (or considering suing) their ex-employer for any number of reasons which may or may not be valid. I suspect if they had good counsel they'd say nothing. If they had bad or no counsel they'd speak about this publicly. So which is it? Who knows.

Anyway, just take a deep breath and fight your natural (and irrational) instincts to either pile on or defend Elon because none of us really know what happened (yet?). [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SolarCity#Litigation_and_inves...

Re: Ex-SolarCity employees: We were fired after reporting millions in fake sales

#35
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who are these poor souls paying out bonuses and commissions on unrealized revenue?

Commission typically isn't paid out until the company is paid in my experience. Bonuses are different, but some companies I work for actually tracked how many orders were actually fully paid for vs. how many were entered into the system. A concerning number of salespeople would basically sign people up if anything the customer said could be construed as being interested, and their numbers would look great until you l…

This was all over the cell phone industry when I worked networks side. This was pre-iPhone era, just to give an idea how long ago.

I traveled around metro areas measuring signal quality, simple upgrades or maintenance, often stopping at nearby retail outlets rather than laptop in the truck.

I’d get to know the store staff and they’d talk freely around me about “fake” signups to juice numbers.

The trick was sign em up at end of month, cancel them before a bill got sent. That way the store appeared to hit their monthly target.

They’d often do fleet style signups; construction company would come in legit looking for 10 lines, the store would sign up 20 phones for construction company. Then return half before the 14-day no questions asked period.

This was going on all the time, across multiple stores, as far as I could tell. The details would change, from construction to startup or new business needing phone in a hurry.

Re: Ex-SolarCity employees: We were fired after reporting millions in fake sales

#36
post #22
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That construction is so weird that I'm going to assume it was a typo and that they meant "tens or hundreds"

Ok. So it could be either $40M or $400M - that's a huge range. Let's assume something in the middle, like $200m. Does it seem credible to you guys that nobody except the three plaintiffs noticed that SolarCity faked half of their 2016 revenue?

Well first off, I don’t see a time range here. This could easily be stretched over multiple years.

Secondly, if someone says “tens or hundreds of millions”, I assume that they’re giving a rough estimate based on incomplete information. If I’m evaluating the credibility of such an estimate, then I’ll consider the most conservative end of the range, which in this case is $20M. If we suppose that that was spread over three years, then we’re talking about 1-2% of total revenue. That doesn’t sound so implausible, right?

Finally, SolarCity’s 2016 revenue was $730M, not $400M.

Re: Ex-SolarCity employees: We were fired after reporting millions in fake sales

#37
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does seem like the involved persons' names are public, no?

Yes but few bother to read lawsuits. Most read news coverage of lawsuits.

So, while it's public information, they shouldn't report the names because most people won't read it? I'm not sure I follow.

Re: Ex-SolarCity employees: We were fired after reporting millions in fake sales

#38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Certainly a lot of short sellers ( and bulls ) spreading rumors online, but this seems more like the continuation of the war between elon musk and journalists. There have been a surprising number of hit pieces by a number of news companies against musk and his companies lately. I think I've seen more negative news articles concerning elon musk in the past 4 months than the 4 years before that. There seems to be a pat…

> the war between elon musk and journalists Elon is attempting to maneuver Tesla through a tight operating and financial envelope. He is doing so with public funding. Of course you're going to have a lot of debate about what he's doing. Journalists being critical isn't them launching a war, it's them attempting to leave no stone unturned.

>Journalists being critical isn't them launching a war, it's them attempting to leave no stone unturned.

When you only do your job some of the time, it's reasonable to question your motivation. We've had years of Tesla and Musk puff-pieces and it's only in the last few months that journalists have decided to leave no stone unturned en masse.

Re: Ex-SolarCity employees: We were fired after reporting millions in fake sales

#40
So, I have no idea what the truth is, but didn't Solar City get bought out by Tesla? In that case, it would seem like it would have been better to clear the books with an audit of past sales, so as to make the price Tesla would have to pay for Solar City, something easier for Tesla to pay. But, I am not a finance person.
Post reply on HN