"My impression as to your cheap labour was soon disillusioned when I saw your people at work. No doubt they are lowly paid, but the return is equally so; to see your men at work made me feel that you are a very satisfied and easy-going race who reckon time is no object. When I spoke to some managers they informed me that it was impossible to change the habits of a national heritage." This excerpt appears in Ha-Joon C…
I am not sure a racist account of 1915 Japan is the best source to explain Brazil's technology sector, to say the least.
In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party
101–110 of 381 posts
Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party
#102Earlier quoted context omitted.
So how long does it take to change the mindset and behavior of a complete country? ~80 years?
Just a caveat, I am not an economist, and am quickly approaching the edge of my knowledge. I think that time is not really a factor here. Institutions like the IMF and WTO passively suppress the economic development of poor countries by withholding incentives unless they behave like rich countries. I don't think this is done out of malice though, because I've met people who genuinely believe that forcing businesses i…
It's easy for someone to "genuinely believe" something when their career (as policy advisors, bankers, development "experts", etc) and perks is based upon promoting it and enforcing it upon others.
Without "skin in the game" everyone can be a good person with "great intentions".
Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party
#103> I used to have a boss that would call us from home saying he was caught in traffic but would be there soon, but we could actually hear his shower running! Wait but that's not just being "oh look how cool and laid-back we are here", that's just lying. He's not caught in unexpected traffic, he's just running late. Perhaps I'm wrong, but it seems objectively worse than agreeing to a time and then being there. With thi…
It's just a polite way to say you're running late. Nobody cares whether it's actually the traffic or not. It's like saying to someone "you look nice in this shirt" when they don't.
Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party
#104"My impression as to your cheap labour was soon disillusioned when I saw your people at work. No doubt they are lowly paid, but the return is equally so; to see your men at work made me feel that you are a very satisfied and easy-going race who reckon time is no object. When I spoke to some managers they informed me that it was impossible to change the habits of a national heritage." This excerpt appears in Ha-Joon C…
That’s fascinating! Does the book have any insight into how Japan made the complete 180° in I guess a few decades? The Meiji Restoration was already incredible but I thought the work ethic was there throughout and helped make it possible. I had no idea there was also a revolution of work ethic.
Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party
#105"My impression as to your cheap labour was soon disillusioned when I saw your people at work. No doubt they are lowly paid, but the return is equally so; to see your men at work made me feel that you are a very satisfied and easy-going race who reckon time is no object. When I spoke to some managers they informed me that it was impossible to change the habits of a national heritage." This excerpt appears in Ha-Joon C…
> I don't have details on Brazil, but I am almost certain that this "Brazilian time" is just a symptom of some completely reversible, systemic problem that is making it difficult to do business with high-technologies in Brazil. Or inversely, it's a western problem that makes it difficult to live humanely and stress-free and incurs great human toll -- and at the point when we're so technologically advanced to not need…
To write off the economic successes of the west under the guise of “problem” with western culture is deeply problematic. If you were to use this tableau to jump into an argument against societies that are captilistic and encourage the chasing of material wealth over the informal, beautiful moments that make humanity interesting you would have a much stronger case. I think we would all benefit if you were to sharpen your position, as there is something deeply intriguing about your point.
With that said, I also find issue with content of your argument. Economic success requires efficiency in all aspects of a business. A lack of punctuality that permeates a society to the point that it effects business strategy is problematic.
Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party
#106Arriving within the first hour of a party start time means you are volunteering to prepare food, make a fire and move chairs. Never go hungry to a braai (barbecue) as lunch will be eaten at 6pm and dinner around midnight!
Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party
#1071. “That evening I went for a walk in town, and came upon a small crowd of people standing around a great big rectangular hole in the road—it had been “dug for sewer pipes, or something—and there, sitting exactly in the hole, was a car. It was marvelous: it fitted absolutely perfectly, with its roof level with the road. The workmen hadn’t bothered to put up any signs at the end of the day, and the guy had simply driven into it. I noticed a difference: When we’d dig a hole, there’d be all kinds of detour signs and flashing lights to protect us. There, they dig the hole, and when they’re finished for the day, they just leave.”
2. “When I got to the center, we had to decide when I would give my lectures—in the morning, or afternoon. Lattes said, “The students prefer the afternoon.” “So let’s have them in the afternoon.” “But the beach is nice in the afternoon, so why don’t you give the lectures in the morning, so you can enjoy the beach in the afternoon.” “But you said the students prefer to have them “in the afternoon.” “Don’t worry about that. Do what’s most convenient for you! Enjoy the beach in the afternoon.” So I learned how to look at life in a way that’s different from the way it is where I come from. First, they weren’t in the same hurry that I was. And second, if it’s better for you, never mind!”
Excerpt From: Richard Phillips Feynman. “Surely You’re Joking, Mr. Feynman”: Adventures of a Curious Character.”
Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party
#108Earlier quoted context omitted.
It wasn't just the Japanese. "Korean time" was a thing back when Korea was one of the poorest countries in the world. Germans also used to be stereotyped as dishonest, thieving, dull and overly emotional before their country industrialized. There is correlation between stereotypes and GDP.
>Germans also used to be stereotyped as dishonest, thieving, dull and overly emotional before their country industrialized. Any links on this?
https://digitalcommons.lsu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=h...
TL;DR (it's a 213 page grad thesis) Old Germany used to be basically Hufflepuff, a simple-minded, loyal, obedient rustic bumbler who's too stupid to really be a threat or even much of a partner. New Germany arose post-German unification and especially post WW1, where the stereotypes shifted to the modern more sinister concept of a nation of amoral mad scientists and clockwork soldiers - largely as an attempt to justify Germany being the great rival of England.
Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party
#109Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's amusing and in line with what my grand mother who grew up in the early 1900s Indochina told me about her (french) dad doing business there. The Chinese had the reputation to be super reliable and men of their word, while the Japanese had the reputation to be unreliable and ready to cross you at the first opportunity. On a longer time scale, it is hard when you look at Italy or Greece today to think of how the sa…
The Chinese had the reputation to be super reliable and men of their word, while the Japanese had the reputation to be unreliable and ready to cross you at the first opportunity. What has been the observation off late of those very same peoples? Have the perceptions markedly changed? If so, how?
Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party
#110Earlier quoted context omitted.
Wait, what ? What makes you think (and other commentators) that it's the Japaneses who changed and not the view held by post-colonialists ? (Managers complaining about their workers ? How weird)
It wasn't just the Japanese. "Korean time" was a thing back when Korea was one of the poorest countries in the world. Germans also used to be stereotyped as dishonest, thieving, dull and overly emotional before their country industrialized. There is correlation between stereotypes and GDP.
> passionate, melancholy, romantic, and tearful
https://m.huffingtonpost.co.uk/thomas-dixon/british-stiff-up...